Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How to prove a pool is bonded and grounded after the fact?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How to prove a pool is bonded and grounded after the fact?

    So, my pool was installed and the concrete contractor poured the cement before the electrical inspector came through. The city is now saying that the cement needs to be torn out. Is there a way to demonstrate (reliably) that the pool and its systems and metal surfaces were grounded and bonded properly?

    #2
    I am approving this post, although the poster is not a member of the electrical industry. This is not a DIY question, but rather a question of what can or cannot be done. That said, I am afraid that I do not know the answer to the question. Perhaps there is some type of radiograph or metal detection that might help.
    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

    Comment


      #3
      the short answer is no as grounding and bonding requirements are not performance based.

      the long answer might involve things like whether the inspector would accept evidence such as pictures and whether such pictures actually existed, or some of the things charley mentioned.

      it seems to me that whomever got the permit is responsible to pay to do whatever it takes to deal with it. you should stay out of it or it will rapidly become your problem.

      BTW, what concrete was poured that is in question? It might be possible for whomever is on the hook to cut slots in deck type concrete and install new bonding wires than to screw around a lot.
      Last edited by petersonra; 02-04-19, 03:01 PM.
      Bob

      Comment


        #4
        eta

        since the connections only have to be made in a few spots it might be possible to open up the concrete in those spots, inspect the connections, and then repair the concrete. the inspector might accept that idea as well, especially if it were accompanied by sworn affidavits from all concerned.
        Bob

        Comment


          #5
          Mike holt has three videos on this. They are all free- here is no 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8YLcXRo-Go
          They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
          She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
          I can't help it if I'm lucky

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
            Mike holt has three videos on this. They are all free- here is no 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8YLcXRo-Go
            that does not prove it was done to code though.
            Bob

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by petersonra View Post
              that does not prove it was done to code though.

              I know but that is the best you can do. Too bad they didn't take pictures but if they see the correct wire size it may be enough to avoid tearing it up.
              They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
              She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
              I can't help it if I'm lucky

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                I know but that is the best you can do. Too bad they didn't take pictures but if they see the correct wire size it may be enough to avoid tearing it up.
                no. that is not the best you can do since it does not even remotely show that the pool was done to code. what inspector would accept the idea that because it met some performance standard that is not part of the code that it would meet code requirements? My guess is that many new pools would meet the performance standards of the videos with no bonding at all just due to being damp most of the time.
                Bob

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jsarconi View Post
                  So, my pool was installed and the concrete contractor poured the cement before the electrical inspector came through. The city is now saying that the cement needs to be torn out. Is there a way to demonstrate (reliably) that the pool and its systems and metal surfaces were grounded and bonded properly?
                  An inspector told me some time ago how he was not called for the bonding inspection prior to patio installation. He was called for the final and saw the patio installed. Required the contractor to tear it up.

                  In your case, the contractor who's responsible for the patio, is also responsible for the inspections. So if it must be torn up, it's on HIS dime.

                  I would say you could find a spot in the pour where the wire mesh or rebar is accessible (if they used either one) and perform a bond test to any other metallic items connected to the pool for verification.

                  Some mason contractor these days are using concrete with fiber mixed in to do away with mesh or rebar.

                  No matter what, the bare #8 copper must be around the pool's perimeter and be connected to the pool in 4 spots. That's probably the inspectors gripe-understandably.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mystic Pools View Post
                    An inspector told me some time ago how he was not called for the bonding inspection prior to patio installation. He was called for the final and saw the patio installed. Required the contractor to tear it up.

                    In your case, the contractor who's responsible for the patio, is also responsible for the inspections. So if it must be torn up, it's on HIS dime.

                    I would say you could find a spot in the pour where the wire mesh or rebar is accessible (if they used either one) and perform a bond test to any other metallic items connected to the pool for verification.

                    Some mason contractor these days are using concrete with fiber mixed in to do away with mesh or rebar.

                    No matter what, the bare #8 copper must be around the pool's perimeter and be connected to the pool in 4 spots. That's probably the inspectors gripe-understandably.
                    Had a inspector in town yrs ago who said he didn't see the rebar in the gunite pour of inground pool. He told contractor to chop it up. Contractor then proceeded to punch out the inspector. Hope this doesn't come to this.

                    There must be the #8 wire showing back at pool filter if he did it right.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kec View Post
                      Had a inspector in town yrs ago who said he didn't see the rebar in the gunite pour of inground pool. He told contractor to chop it up. Contractor then proceeded to punch out the inspector. Hope this doesn't come to this.

                      There must be the #8 wire showing back at pool filter if he did it right.
                      Has the contractor gotten out of the big house yet?


                      I was on a job where a concrete slab for 10 ICU rooms was removed because the ornery old GC superintendent didn't have a slab inspection.

                      Roger
                      Moderator

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by roger View Post
                        Has the contractor gotten out of the big house yet?


                        I was on a job where a concrete slab for 10 ICU rooms was removed because the ornery old GC superintendent didn't have a slab inspection.

                        Roger
                        wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?
                        Bob

                        Comment


                          #13
                          how far from the water edge is the bonding ring, how deep

                          are the lugs tight

                          are they installed correctly

                          was the wire mesh bonded if so did they bond with a split bolt metal wire mesh (steel), or did the use a split bolt with a dividing plate (bi- metal )

                          was the wet nitch bonded

                          and so on

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Here in NJ commercial pools are required to having their bonding systems tested every 5 years. As Bob stated some may pass even without the currently required equipotential bonding systems. If they do pass are they any less safe?

                            [COLOR=#000000]The required bonding and grounding certificate must verify the continuity and integrity of the bonding and grounding system of the pool. The electrical certificate of compliance must verify that all wiring located in or about the pool pump and associated electrical equipment complies with the electrical subcode.[/COLOR]
                            I agree that the OP needs to let the contractor worry about getting the issue resolved which should involve chopping it all up and doing it over.
                            Rob

                            Moderator

                            All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by petersonra View Post
                              wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?
                              A run of the mill pool deck is far more of an electrocution hazard than a ICU slab.

                              Roger
                              Moderator

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X