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Does a Service Panelboard swap trigger update to Bonding?

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    Does a Service Panelboard swap trigger update to Bonding?

    This has probably been covered, but I can't find it with search. I'm a licensed 01 Admin, but am dependent on my journeyman electrician for things like upgrading electric panels as my experience is mostly in solar. He says the last 25 panels he swapped did not automatically require an update to Bonding and grounding. We are talking about requirements for 2 ground rods, bonding to water pipe within 5' of entry to home, bonding hot, cold, and gas together, etc. But, inspector came out and said it was required by the city as they just follow the nec. So, does NEC really require an update to Bonding when a panel swap is done? (I mean Main Service Panel...not a meter swap and not sub panels). Who is right? My journeyman? Or, the inspector?

    #2
    We wouldn’t pass an inspection unless we updated, and would not think otherwise.
    Tom
    TBLO

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      #3
      Around here it definitely does. Enforcement of the full grounding requirements in the code varies from one city to the next, but you'd better have what they want if you change the service panel. Or if you install solar. those are the two things that trigger it, most other work doesn't. If the existing service had nothing or not enough, you'll fail.

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        #4
        Same here. An upgrade requires larger electrode conductors.

        We don't get to omit them because they weren't there before.
        Master Electrician
        Electrical Contractor
        Richmond, VA

        Comment


          #5
          Actually I don't really see how a panel swap should trigger bringing the GES up to code. A service UPGRADE yes, but just a panelboard change no. Not that what I think matters....
          Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

          "You can't generalize"

          Comment


            #6
            Lovely

            Well, that's just great. 3 yeas and 1 nay. An NEC reference would be just awesome.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Tradesmanx View Post
              Well, that's just great. 3 yeas and 1 nay. An NEC reference would be just awesome.
              What are the NEC requirements for a 100 amp service? A 200?

              That is all I need. Your local may be different.
              Tom
              TBLO

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Tradesmanx View Post
                Well, that's just great. 3 yeas and 1 nay. An NEC reference would be just awesome.
                The NEC doesn't cover what things mist be "brought up to code" and under what situations
                Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                "You can't generalize"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                  Actually I don't really see how a panel swap should trigger bringing the GES up to code. A service UPGRADE yes, but just a panelboard change no. Not that what I think matters....
                  I kind of agree, but many inspectors will want to see addition of electrodes if they were missing or incorrectly sized GEC they would require to be changed. Now if you only had rod(s) for electrodes, conductor size needed is only 6 AWG regardless if it is a 100 or 1000 amp service - some may want you to prove resistance or prove there is two rods, some may not if it were existing. Similar if you had a CEE and no other electrodes, nothing really needs changed even if you upgrade service capacity.

                  Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                  The NEC doesn't cover what things mist be "brought up to code" and under what situations
                  I agree with that also. Many AHJ's consider bonding/grounding something that needs upgraded if service is upgraded, or even if replaced with same capacity but existing grounding arrangements don't comply with code currently in effect. Might run into this with old water piping that never used to be required to have the bond within 5 feet of entry, even if the original GEC is sufficient size for what you are doing.

                  They often also require the intersystem bond terminal, as well as 210.64 require receptacle if not already present.
                  I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Mr. X, why not just ask your inspector? Whether he/she looks for these things won't depend on whether you draw attention to them. The way it's usually looked at is that whatever work you are doing must be done to present code; what does this installation require?

                    Even for a repair, installing like-for-like, the grounding should be to code, regardless of whether it was done correctly before. Why wouldn't you? If work must be done that should have been done before you, and should be corrected now, explain and charge accordingly.
                    Master Electrician
                    Electrical Contractor
                    Richmond, VA

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Tradesmanx View Post
                      my journeyman electrician for things like upgrading electric panels as my experience is mostly in solar. He says the last 25 panels he swapped did not automatically require an update to Bonding and grounding. We are talking about requirements for 2 ground rods, bonding to water pipe within 5' of entry to home, bonding hot, cold, and gas together, etc. But, inspector came out and said it was required by the city as they just follow the nec. So, does NEC really require an update to Bonding when a panel swap is done? (I mean Main Service Panel...not a meter swap and not sub panels). Who is right? My journeyman? Or, the inspector?

                      The authority having jurisdiction gets to make that call. Your electrician may have worked in a jurisdiction where they were not so serious about grounding and bonding.

                      One thing that may have affected how serious they were about grounding and bonding. Was the job permitted as a repair or part of a bigger project (new construction).
                      The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by growler View Post
                        The authority having jurisdiction gets to make that call. Your electrician may have worked in a jurisdiction where they were not so serious about grounding and bonding.

                        One thing that may have affected how serious they were about grounding and bonding. Was the job permitted as a repair or part of a bigger project (new construction).
                        First thing they teach inspectors in certification training is that grounding electrodes are the highest priority, or at least it would seem that way. If you are missing one (for any reason) they seem to all be trained to tell you that a disaster is certain to happen.
                        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                        Comment

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