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Overhead telephone cables terminated at multiple MPOEs on second story

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    Overhead telephone cables terminated at multiple MPOEs on second story

    I've got a messy set of AT&T communications cables coming into a 1907 wood building that is within a few feet of a railroad that will shortly have 25 kV wires running past it, so need to make sure everything is up to code, and then some. Given the funky set of cables coming to the building, I'm hyper-concerned about ground-loops.

    Here's what's existing:
    • One ~10 conductor telephone cable coming from an underground conduit, with a visible ground wire running from the NID adjacent to the conduit, connected to something unknown under the concrete, adjacent to the building electrical supply entrance.
    • Two ~10 conductor telephone cables coming from a telephone pole, routed to ground level adjacent to the NID mentioned above, with both bonded to an IBT that's connected to a ground rod.
    • 3 additional ~10 conductor telephone cables coming from the same telephone pole, but feeding two separate MPOEs on opposite sides of the upper floor; neither have any visible bonding ties to the grounding system.


    None of the above cables have any active service, but new service is going to be ordered soon.

    Questions:
    1) What are all the parts of 800 that can be used to urge the removal of the upper-floor MPOEs?
    2) My preference is to have one of the upper-floor cables brought down to ground-level in case it has better quality pairs for internet service, and have the two remaining cables cut from the MPOEs and coiled up at the corner of the roof where they arrive from the telephone pole, so that they don't enter the building and trigger grounding requirements. Is that good enough, or do they need to be cut back further?
    3) What is AT&T required to do to resolve code issues along these lines, and what can I cajole them into doing?
    4) I'm going to be making this grounding system our museum's first safety-related exhibit. What are all the things it should cover?
    5) What else do I need to worry about and do before we call AT&T for new service?

    #2
    Originally posted by PetesGuide View Post
    I've got a messy set of AT&T communications cables......
    No way, never

    As part of the new work request, I would ask them to remove all the unused cables. I've gone up on poles and cut old crap down myself sometimes when I can't stand it anymore.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

    Comment


      #3
      You haven't said if any of this is still in service, I suspect some is? Phone companies don't give a rat's patoot about copper any more so your chances of them cleaning that mess up is nil- and don't even bother to try and tell them how to do it. They couldn't care less about an amateur's ideas or code either so save your breath.

      And I really don't think you have any safety concerns.

      If you are getting new service, have them include any existing numbers and request that all the old stuff be removed.

      -Hal

      Comment


        #4
        Deleted. reason: duplicate


        -Hal

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hbiss View Post
          You haven't said if any of this is still in service, I suspect some is? Phone companies don't give a rat's patoot about copper any more so your chances of them cleaning that mess up is nil- and don't even bother to try and tell them how to do it. They couldn't care less about an amateur's ideas or code either so save your breath.

          And I really don't think you have any safety concerns.

          If you are getting new service, have them include any existing numbers and request that all the old stuff be removed.

          -Hal
          He said none of them are active, but new service would be ordered soon. You can bet that as long as they can get enough pairs needed to work, they will reuse them.
          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

          Comment


            #6
            Depends. Around here in Verizon territory techs are subject to termination if they do any more than the simplest repair on their copper to get a subscriber working. Everything is fiber to the premises now and no copper is allowed to be used for any new service or repair of an old one.

            -Hal

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by hbiss View Post
              Depends. Around here in Verizon territory techs are subject to termination if they do any more than the simplest repair on their copper to get a subscriber working. Everything is fiber to the premises now and no copper is allowed to be used for any new service or repair of an old one.

              -Hal
              If everything is fiber now how do you repair that with copper?
              I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by kwired View Post
                If everything is fiber now how do you repair that with copper?
                Of course you don't. If a sub is served by existing copper, either still in service or not, the techs are required to not use it if they are there for trouble or a new service of any kind. Instead they must do a new installation with fiber and switch the inside wiring over to it.

                -Hal

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by PetesGuide View Post
                  I've got a messy set of AT&T communications cables coming into a 1907 wood building that is within a few feet of a railroad that will shortly have 25 kV wires running past it, so need to make sure everything is up to code, and then some. Given the funky set of cables coming to the building, I'm hyper-concerned about ground-loops.

                  Here's what's existing:
                  • One ~10 conductor telephone cable coming from an underground conduit, with a visible ground wire running from the NID adjacent to the conduit, connected to something unknown under the concrete, adjacent to the building electrical supply entrance.
                  • Two ~10 conductor telephone cables coming from a telephone pole, routed to ground level adjacent to the NID mentioned above, with both bonded to an IBT that's connected to a ground rod.
                  • 3 additional ~10 conductor telephone cables coming from the same telephone pole, but feeding two separate MPOEs on opposite sides of the upper floor; neither have any visible bonding ties to the grounding system.


                  None of the above cables have any active service, but new service is going to be ordered soon.

                  Questions:
                  1) What are all the parts of 800 that can be used to urge the removal of the upper-floor MPOEs?
                  2) My preference is to have one of the upper-floor cables brought down to ground-level in case it has better quality pairs for internet service, and have the two remaining cables cut from the MPOEs and coiled up at the corner of the roof where they arrive from the telephone pole, so that they don't enter the building and trigger grounding requirements. Is that good enough, or do they need to be cut back further?
                  3) What is AT&T required to do to resolve code issues along these lines, and what can I cajole them into doing?
                  4) I'm going to be making this grounding system our museum's first safety-related exhibit. What are all the things it should cover?
                  5) What else do I need to worry about and do before we call AT&T for new service?
                  If new services are slated to supplant the old telephone wiring--the odds are, the old 1907 building will be served with either of the three formats (topology):

                  1. One pair of telephone wires

                  2. Fiber optic cable

                  3. Shielded coax.

                  4. If this is a commercial building it may be served with a dedicated T-1 Line for internet access.

                  In 1907 there were no internet or TV service.
                  In today's telecommunication infrastructure (and accompanying appurtenances) data delivery rides on existing analog telephone lines.

                  Using the same pair of telephone wires for data and voice became possible with the arrival of BROADBAND high frequency signals.
                  You can talk on the phone while surfing the web.. . and even watch TV.

                  So, I won't bet on the analog or digital phone service provider on using your 30-conductor telephone cables.

                  Now, if you are concerned of extraneous cables that serve no purpose or even eyesore, why can't you have the phone guys install their cables first and yank out the old cables.

                  You can salvage them to copper recycling dealer..and use the proceed for vacation in the Bahamas.

                  Copper prices have gone through the roof these days.

                  I'm not making light of a serious situation--just pointing you to a heuristic approach--after all there are several ways to skin a cat. . .right?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by hbiss View Post
                    Of course you don't. If a sub is served by existing copper, either still in service or not, the techs are required to not use it if they are there for trouble or a new service of any kind. Instead they must do a new installation with fiber and switch the inside wiring over to it.

                    -Hal
                    Around here phone companies either supply you with fiber or copper, there is no choice depends on which system they are using. Not a lot of fiber around yet, when it comes to final connection to users, but there are a few companies that have switched over to this, and when they did they switched it over for all existing users and abandoned all their copper lines.
                    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I -like- being able to pick up the phone during a power outage and still hear the dial tone. Unless I have a still-charged battery backup, the fiber's not going to work. ):

                      My phones are still AT&T Analog for the most part...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Oh well, that's progress...

                        -Hal

                        Comment

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