Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Grounding outlet and switch box

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Grounding outlet and switch box

    If a device is self grounding, do you still need to bond to the metallic box assuming the ground is terminated on the device?

    #2
    Just testing my knowledge---> I'd say yes, because removing the device will break the ground continuity, leaving the box ungrounded. <-- this answer may be wrong!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
      If a device is self grounding, do you still need to bond to the metallic box assuming the ground is terminated on the device?
      The box has to be bonded first, then a jumper to the device. In your case, the jumper isn't required since the device is self-grounded. You can also, in many cases, remove one of the washers on the mounting screws and not use the jumper.
      [COLOR=navy]If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time![/COLOR]

      Comment


        #4
        I learned something new today. My thinking has always been along the line of Paul's, but code got me asking. Hope it doesn't change.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
          I learned something new today. My thinking has always been along the line of Paul's, but code got me asking. Hope it doesn't change.
          Remember that hopefully you will remove any plugs from the receptacle before removing it from the box. So at that point the ground is not doing anything.

          -Hal

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by hbiss View Post

            Remember that hopefully you will remove any plugs from the receptacle before removing it from the box. So at that point the ground is not doing anything.

            -Hal
            Oh, trust me, I haven't yet gotten to that point mentally

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by hbiss View Post

              Remember that hopefully you will remove any plugs from the receptacle before removing it from the box. So at that point the ground is not doing anything.

              -Hal
              Where else would you plug in the drop light to illuminate your work?

              Comment


                #8
                The rule is that it's the box that must be grounded; the device grounding is what's eliminated by the self-grounding feature. In other words, the feature is for grounding of the device, not the box.
                Master Electrician
                Electrical Contractor
                Richmond, VA

                Comment


                  #9
                  I agree- but nothing forbids the other way around, correct?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                    I agree- but nothing forbids the other way around, correct?
                    Not.
                    Master Electrician
                    Electrical Contractor
                    Richmond, VA

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mbrooke View Post
                      I agree- but nothing forbids the other way around, correct?
                      Perhaps a 2023 code change?
                      Moderator-Washington State
                      Ancora Imparo

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Not yet.

                        2023- probably.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Little Bill View Post
                          ..You can also, in many cases, remove one of the washers on the mounting screws and not use the jumper.
                          Just because permits with inspections regularly pass re-modelers, rope pullers, and general contractors that fire any helper using device-grounding terminals, KO seals, or who pull drywall rocks from boxes, does not mean it will pass an insurance claim.

                          If device is not self bonding, violating the device listing or 110.3(B) gives freebees to the insurance industry, who find listing violations as cause for denying casualty claims.
                          Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

                          Comment


                            #14
                            .
                            Originally posted by ramsy View Post

                            Just because permits with inspections regularly pass re-modelers, rope pullers, and general contractors that fire any helper using device-grounding terminals, KO seals, or who pull drywall rocks from boxes, does not mean it will pass an insurance claim.

                            If device is not self bonding, violating the device listing or 110.3(B) gives freebees to the insurance industry, who find listing violations as cause for denying casualty claims.
                            What are you talking about?

                            (A) Surface-Mounted Box. Where the box is mounted on the
                            surface, direct metal-to-metal contact between the device yoke
                            and the box or a contact yoke or device that complies with
                            250.146(B) shall be permitted to ground the receptacle to the
                            box. At least one of the insulating washers shall be removed
                            from receptacles that do not have a contact yoke or device that
                            complies with 250.146(B) to ensure direct metal-to-metal
                            contact.
                            This provision shall not apply to cover-mounted receptacles
                            unless the box and cover combination are listed as
                            providing satisfactory ground continuity between the box and
                            the receptacle. A listed exposed work cover shall be permitted
                            to be the grounding and bonding means when (1) the device is
                            attached to the cover with at least two fasteners that are permanent
                            (such as a rivet) or have a thread locking or screw or nut
                            locking means and (2) when the cover mounting holes are
                            located on a flat non-raised portion of the cover

                            [COLOR=navy]If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time![/COLOR]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              As Bill pointed out there is one instance where you can remove a single insulating washer to bond the receptacle and that when using a surface FS style box like one of these:
                              Rob

                              Moderator

                              All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X