Grounding replaced by Earthing

[tom baker]

There is a proposal for the 2008 NEC to replace the term grounding with Earthing.
I just instructed a Grounding vs Bonding class, and used the term Earthing in place of grounding. It made a lot more sense.

 

[ryan_618]

I don't think it will pass.

 

[iwire]

I could get used to saying 'earthing' and 'bonding'.

That is assuming they change the other type of grounding to bonding.

 

[jes25]

I heard in the UK they already call it "earthing"

 

[eric stromberg]

I made this proposal for the 2005 code cycle and was shot down.
Earthing makes a whole lot more sense.
The worst perpetrators of the misuse of the word Ground are electronic people. (I was a hard cord electronic person for many years. Lived and breathed PC boards and components and breathed in more of my fair share of solder fumes). To electronic people, "ground" means the common side of the power supply. They have no conception of 'soil.' e.g. the 'ground' plane on a pc board. a 'grounded' emitter transistor. The 'ground' bus.

My proposal was for Article 250 to be renamed Earthing and for all the bonding sections to be moved into a new Article 255 called Bonding.


Who knows. If we all stick around long enough, it might happen.

Eric

 

[TOMWELDS]

What's wrong with the term 'grounding'...Considering the terms been used for over 100 years makes it an easy reference. Sometimes it doesnt have to change... :wink: :idea:

 

[eric stromberg]

What's wrong with 'Grounding'?

Are you married? Have you ever had a conversation with your wife, being totally confidant that you understood everything she said, only to find out the next day that the words she used and the words you heard had two different meanings?

Grounding has entirely too many meanings. If you're an electronic guy, Grounding means the common of the power supply.
If you're talking about a fault-current return path, you're talking about an equipment Grounding conductor that has nothing whatsoever to do with grounding.

Article 250 is about Grounding and Bonding. They are for two totally distinct purposes. Trouble is, although the terms are defined in the beginning of the article, after the first few sections, the terms are mixed together and used interchangeably.

For example, 'equipment grounding conductor' should be 'equipment bonding conductor.'
'Grounded receptacle' should be 'Bonded receptacle.'
Switch yokes need to be Grounded should be Switch yokes need to be Bonded.

It's a mess. That's why so many continuing education courses have to do with Grounding and Bonding.

Eric

 

[iwire]

I heard in the UK they already call it "earthing"

Yes they call it earthing in many places outside the US.

I made this proposal for the 2005 code cycle and was shot down.

I can only imagine the resistance (or is it impedance :wink: ) to this change.

'It's to European'

Grounding has entirely too many meanings. If you're an electronic guy, Grounding means the common of the power supply.

If you're talking about a fault-current return path, you're talking about an equipment Grounding conductor that has nothing whatsoever to do with grounding.

No doubt that 'grounding' is no longer (if it ever was) a specific term or function.

It's a mess. That's why so many continuing education courses have to do with Grounding and Bonding.

It sure is, one of the other members has been trying to get the 'grounding' we do with an EGC to be changed to bonding.

It makes sense to me to make these two changes at the same time.

Grounding would be left for the non-electricians and we would have earthing (connections to earth) and bonding (fault path conductors)

IMO this could clear up the mess as soon as us old dogs learn new tricks.

 

[bphgravity]

I don't mind calling true grounding - grounding. I understand grounding to be the connection to earth so call it earthing won't change much for me. What would be a problem is if you start saying equipment needs to be earthed or connected to an earthing conductor. This will just continue the misconception that things need to be connected to the earth in order to work or be safe.

The idea of grounding needs to be left with the service (save for separate structures). After the system is grounded, nothing should be referenced as grounding anymore as that is not the purpose of any conductor after the service. Seems simple to me.

If grounding and bonding is so controversial, perhaps we should drop both terms and just go with identifying terms with wha they do.

Grounding Electrode Conductors - Big waste of time conductors

Equipment Grounding Conductors - Effective fault path conductors

Grounded Conductors - Normal current carrying conductor that is usually insulated and white.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Bryan,

Equipment Grounding Conductors - Effective fault path conductors

As long as we continue to the use the word "grounding" for the fault clearing path, we will continue to have installers thinking that the earth plays a part in clearing faults.
Don

 

[George Stolz]

It sure is, one of the other members has been trying to get the 'grounding' we do with an EGC to be changed to bonding.

It makes sense to me to make these two changes at the same time.

Grounding would be left for the non-electricians and we would have earthing (connections to earth) and bonding (fault path conductors)

IMO this could clear up the mess as soon as us old dogs learn new tricks.

The problem is, people will continue to pull the "water bond" required in 250.52(A)(1). :?

Given the situation these similar, transposed, abused terms are in, it's not surprising for two people to have an entire discussion about bonding and grounding, and never talk about the same thing.

I'd love the changes, but I believe there is enough mental constipation out there to keeping continuing education afloat for years to come.

 

[bphgravity]

As long as we continue to the use the word "grounding" for the fault clearing path, we will continue to have installers thinking that the earth plays a part in clearing faults.
Don

That's why we should call it the "effective fault path conductor." This way it doesn't matter if what you are doing is bonding or grounding. Lets call things by what they do.

 

[eric stromberg]

"...let's call it by what they do."

What a great idea! I'm in!

While we're at it, let's change the phrase "Ground Fault" to what it really is; either "insulation failure" or "phase to case fault."

Eric

 

[jes25]

"

While we're at it, let's change the phrase "Ground Fault" to what it really is; either "insulation failure" or "phase to case fault."

Eric

But A GFCI would be a PCFI (phase case fault interrupter) :lol:

Or maybe we could call it by what it does a TTPS (technology to prevent shocks)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

jes,

Or maybe we could call it by what it does a TTPS (technology to prevent shocks)

We can't call it that because GFCIs do not prevent shocks...they only act to limit the duration of the shock.
Don

 

[LarryFine]

I was a hard cord electronic person for many years. Lived and breathed PC boards and components and breathed in more of my fair share of solder fumes.

"I love the smell of rosin-core solder in the morning!"

 

[jes25]

jWe can't call it that because GFCIs do not prevent shocks...they only act to limit the duration of the shock.
Don

I was thinking about this post today and I knew someone would catch it.

Nothing gets past you guys!! (Thats what I love about it)

TTPFS = Technolgy To Prevent Fatal shocks (I do believe 6ma can not be fatal in a healthy adult)

 

[charlie b]

How about calling it "Fault to Earth Alleviation Technology"? But I'm sure getting that through the committees be quite a FEAT. :roll:

 

[davidv]

Before we go on with the proposed replacement of terms.

Does anybody have a list of "perceived" discrepancies of Code 250 sections. that is "bonding" term is really meant , but using "grounding" or otherwise.

From there it would be easier for changing to earthing or may be no need at all

sharing or posting that list would really help a lot in this forum.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

David,

Does anybody have a list of "perceived" discrepancies of Code 250 sections. that is "bonding" term is really meant , but using "grounding" or otherwise.

The list of where gounding means grounding would be much shorter. I haven't done a count, but I expect that at least 90% of the time where the code uses grounding, it really means bonding.
Don