satellite grounding location and the NEC

[CERCYON]

Anyone know if the NEC states that satellites or antennae connected to electrical equipment
should be place as close as possible to the house's main breaker and
electric meter for proper grounding.

There is a home owners association mandate that satellites be placed toward the rear of the house burt some are disputing that saying the NEC states they have to be as close to the house's main breaker and
electric meter for proper grounding.

Is that the case? All i can find is where the entry of the coaxial cable must have the ground block as close as possible.

The installer told one resident this.

 

[George Stolz]

I would say no, the dish can be anywhere, as long as a conductor for intersystem bonding is run from the dish back to one of the grounding points required to be provided by 250.94.

Edit to add: See 810.21 for the dish's conductor requirements.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

They may have a problem with the FCC if the specified location in the rear of the house does not provide a clear path between the dish and the satellite or if the installation in that area costs significantly more than an installation in another area.
From the FCC document:

...For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.

Don

 

[CERCYON]

thanks guys.
Don, we have seen the fcc rule and there is no cost increase. If they cant get a good signal the HOA has stated all they need is a document from the installer stating this and thats fine . there have been several do that especially those with High def .

The fcc also says HOA can enforce the placement rule as long as picture signal and cost are not effected and it seems just High def is here. There is no close tower apparently

 

[stickboy1375]

Anyone know if the NEC states that satellites or antennae connected to electrical equipment
should be place as close as possible to the house's main breaker and
electric meter for proper grounding.

There is a home owners association mandate that satellites be placed toward the rear of the house burt some are disputing that saying the NEC states they have to be as close to the house's main breaker and
electric meter for proper grounding.

Is that the case? All i can find is where the entry of the coaxial cable must have the ground block as close as possible.

The installer told one resident this.

Of course he wants to install his DISH as close to the service as possible, most installers are freelancers, so the faster they finish the job the more money they make... :grin:

 

[George Stolz]

Stick, often they have no idea of the requirement to connect the dish to the grounding electrode system of the premises anyway. Check out this story from Dereck.

 

[stickboy1375]

Stick, often they have no idea of the requirement to connect the dish to the grounding electrode system of the premises anyway. Check out this story from Dereck.

I agree... Good story too..

 

[CERCYON]

I would say no, the dish can be anywhere, as long as a conductor for intersystem bonding is run from the dish back to one of the grounding points required to be provided by 250.94.

Edit to add: See 810.21 for the dish's conductor requirements.

I beleive the nec states that the grounding conductor must not exceed 20 ft and be run in as strait a line as possible, so the sat apparently will need to rather close to the main box if not right over it.

 

[oceanaradio]

I beleive the nec states that the grounding conductor must not exceed 20 ft and be run in as strait a line as possible, so the sat apparently will need to rather close to the main box if not right over it.

The Dish can be wherever it needs to be, and additional ground rods every 20' along the path satisfy the requirement that the "last bonding conductor" be no more than 20' in length. That is a matter of interpretation, but one of sound engineering principles as well as common sense. The situation also arises whenever antenna coaxial feedlines have to enter a structure far from the AC entrance and it's associated grounding electrode. After all, to follow the NEC alone is to operate at your own peril, for the same code allows a second ground rod at the AC entrance to satisfy the failure to obtain 25 ohms or less at a single grounding electrode. NEC doesn't care if both ground rods have 2k ohms or more, they want you to know you should be happy with two!

And, if a nearby lighting strike blows your meter to kingdom come, don't tell the NEC about it, those two ground rods were there for circuit safety, not lighting protection!


Moral of the story, become familiar with NFPA-780 as well, and if possible, make all utilities enter at the same location.

Jack
Virginia Beach, VA

 

[Smart $]

The Dish can be wherever it needs to be, and additional ground rods every 20' along the path satisfy the requirement that the "last bonding conductor" be no more than 20' in length. That is a matter of interpretation, but one of sound engineering principles as well as common sense.

I'd rather just run a 6 AWG copper or equivalent from the satellite dish/equipment grounding rod to the power grounding electrode system, and skip any in-between ground rods. See 810.21(J).

 

[infinity]

I'd rather just run a 6 AWG copper or equivalent from the satellite dish/equipment grounding rod to the power grounding electrode system, and skip any in-between ground rods. See 810.21(J).

I agree. If you're more than 20' from the service entrance just pound in an 8' ground rod and run a #6 to the building grounding electrode system.

 

[Smart $]

I agree. If you're more than 20' from the service entrance just pound in an 8' ground rod and run a #6 to the building grounding electrode system.

Actually, there is no 20' limitation and there is no requirement to install a new grounding electrode of any type if any of the grounding points enumerated in 810.21(F)(1) already exist (at least one must exist if the premises is on the grid). The grounding conductor can even be 10 AWG copper, 8 AWG aluminum, or 17 AWG copper-clad steel or bronze, if a new ground rod is not installed—ref. 810.21(H).

I have no idea where everyone keeps coming up with this 20' limitation!!!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I have no idea where everyone keeps coming up with this 20' limitation!!!

Because they are looking in the wrong Article. Articles 800 and 820 have the 20' rule, but 810, which applies to the dish installation, does not.
Don

 

[mark henderson]

I believe y'all are talking about a TV satellite dish installed on a residence? If so when I used to install we tried to make the grounding conductor run to the closest ground point. If your ground run is longer then your shortest cable run then it is ineffective for that cable run. We always ran a #10 for the ground we were allowed to ground to the main panel the cold water if copper or the metal enclosure of an ac disconnect.
Most satellite installers are not licensed electricians there fore they are not allowed to drive ground rods.

Mark

 

[infinity]

Because they are looking in the wrong Article. Articles 800 and 820 have the 20' rule, but 810, which applies to the dish installation, does not.
Don

Thanks for the correction Don. I was looking at article 820 as you pointed out which has the 20' limitation.

 

[pirspilane]

A common misconception?

A common misconception?

Actually, there is no 20' limitation and there is no requirement to install a new grounding electrode of any type if any of the grounding points enumerated in 810.21(F)(1) already exist (at least one must exist if the premises is on the grid). The grounding conductor can even be 10 AWG copper, 8 AWG aluminum, or 17 AWG copper-clad steel or bronze, if a new ground rod is not installed?ref. 810.21(H).

I have no idea where everyone keeps coming up with this 20' limitation!!!

My reading is that the 20' limitation applies only to CA-TV and CA-Radio systems, not to rooftop antennas. Is this your interpretation also?

Article 810 says the antenna discharge unit should be grounded per 810.21, which has no 20' limitation. However, there are a lot of satellite dish installation websites quoting the 20' limitation. If they are wrong, then it is a common misconception.

 

[Smart $]

My reading is that the 20' limitation applies only to CA-TV and CA-Radio systems, not to rooftop antennas. Is this your interpretation also?

Essentially yes... but I don't see it as an interpretation. Article 810 is quite straightforward. It specifically iterates a "dish" antenna in its Scope statement.

Article 810 says the antenna discharge unit should [shall] be grounded per 810.21, which has no 20' limitation. However, there are a lot of satellite dish installation websites quoting the 20' limitation. If they are wrong, then it is a common misconception.

It's not that they are wrong, per se... they are purporting inaccurate information?but it exceeds the actual minimum requirement of the NEC.