neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

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billete

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Where can I find the neutral conductor sizing for a 3 phase panelboard 208/120? I would like to run 1 neutral for each 3, 120v. circuits. I would imagine it would only carry the imbalance of the 3 loads? I am looking in 250 of the NEC, but not finding anything. I must be way off base

[ February 03, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: billete ]
 

roger

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Location
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Retired Electrician
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

220.22

Roger

[ February 03, 2004, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

See 250.24(B) as well.

Notice, however, that this section is limitted in its application to service equipment.

[ February 03, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 

daveinca

Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

This may not be in the Code, but my opinions. If you have anything in the way of harmonic-producing equipment on these circuits, computers, etc., I would oversize the neutral to handle possible triplen harmonics which could exceed the current in any one hot. You will find this in office cubicle wiring harnesses, usually 3-12 ga. hots with a 10 ga neutral. I prefer (data center) to run separate neutrals and grounds for every circuit, minimizes noise between those big computers!
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

Daveinca: I certainly don't disagree with your post, but I want to add that I find it very interesting that when talking about non-linear loads in an office environment, the flourescant lighting is seldom disussed. It is my understanding that these lights are just as big of a problem as computers for creating harmonics from their non-linear nature.
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

I have heard the gloom and doom about harmonic current for 50 years. I always understood the appearance of the (in phase neutral) current points out the need for using full size neutral conductors instead of reducing the size.

I never considered using a larger size neutral than the active line conductors.

Does anyone have the calculations for the highest possible current on a system with a high THD?
 

Ed MacLaren

Senior Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

AFC markets a line of "Super Neutral" cables, with both an oversized common neutral version, and one with a neutral for each phase.

AFC cables

Ed

SuperN.gif
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

I have had students in my classes from a school district that have had neutrals burn up from harmonic currents.
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

One of the things that I find interesting on the plans that I review is that the EE will often spec a 200% nuetral on feeder circuits to panelboards, but not on the branch circuits that supply the non-linear loads. I wonder why that is?
 

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

Ryan I have three replies for that.

1)Oversizeing the neutral would not do anything for a standard two wire circuit.

2)At least in the circuits I deal with that feed non-linear loads, the ciruit is very lightly loaded. 4 or 5 amps.

3)Take a multiwire branch circuit fed with 12/4 MC, each of the three legs even if loaded with 10 amps of non linear loads will not overload the 12 THHN neutral with a rating of 25 amps.

JMO, I would like to here Derecks take on this. :)
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

Would reducing the load on each branch circuit and feeder be a more positive method to reduce current?
 

dereckbc

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Location
Plano, TX
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

Bob, it is really a design issue and it starts at the entrance. From the MDP I divide the loads up in to either non-sensitive, sensitive, critical, lighting, or environmental loads, and then separate them via feeders to the respective sub-panels. Most everything I deal with is 480/277, but the same principle can be applied to 208/120.

Environmental loads are HVAC, UPS, and rectifiers. I use straight forward 480 3-phase distribution.

Lighting panels get a full size neutral on feeders, and individual neutrals on branch circuits.

Sensitive loads that are not on UPS I take to a K13 transformer and use 150% over-sized neutral on feeders, and use separate neutrals for all branch circuits.

Non sensitive loads which are GP outlets, office PC?s, frigs, microwave, etc I use a K4 transformer and full size neutral on feeders and multi-wire branch circuits. If I know there are going to be a lot of PC?s, printers, etc. I will use an individual neutral on branch circuits or a super-neutral multi-circuit cable. Really depends on budget.

Critical loads are either fed by UPS or DC battery plant. The UPS systems uses a custom PDU?s located close to where power is utilized with separate neutral an all branch circuits. Battery plant distribution is top secret.

I have taken a lot of readings over the years in data centers. I do find a few installations where the neutral current exceeds the phase conductor current. So I would sum it up this way. Always consider single-phase loads to be non-linear and at least use a full size neutral on feeders, at least a K 4 rated transformer to trap harmonics, and at least a full size neutral on multi-wire branch circuits. If you know it is going to be a heavy or all non-linear loads use K 13 transformers, 150% over-sized neutral on feeders, and separate neutrals on branch circuits. Last, get the grounding right or you will shoot yourself in the foot.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: neutral conductor sizing for 3 phase panelboard

Dereck thanks for the info, I have a question.

I thought I read that the harmonic currents could only add up to 1.73 of the phase current.

Is that a fact, or is there no limit to the amount of harmonic current.

Bob
 
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