Bonding Gas pipe from subpanel

[hurk27]

Paul, here in Indiana we are not even required to take the CSST bonding back to the service, it was recognized that the whole problem with CSST was the current from lightning, and just bonding the one end of the CSST will not prevent this, we are required to bond around it meaning the a #6 conductor or larger has to be run with the CSST to bond both ends together. what help will a bond to the service do if lightning hits a flue or chimney and comes down to this CSST pipe and tries to flow over it back to the GEC of the service. without a bond in parallel with the CSST it can cause the CSST to fail? this has nothing to do with bonding to the service but the bonding of each end of the CSST.

 

[iwire]

meaning the a #6 conductor or larger has to be run with the CSST to bond both ends together. what help will a bond to the service do if lightning hits a flue or chimney and comes down to this CSST pipe and tries to flow over it back to the GEC of the service. without a bond in parallel with the CSST it can cause the CSST to fail?

How do the electrons know to follow the 6 AWG and not the CSST?

 

[electricmanscott]

How do the electrons know to follow the 6 AWG and not the CSST?

Electoral college

 

[hurk27]

How do the electrons know to follow the 6 AWG and not the CSST?

Well with lightning we don't, but at least we can hope it will take some of the current off the CSST:-?

I myself would say eliminate the CSST, but then you have the lobbyist to tend with

 

[infinity]

Why? A new house may not have any metal pipe to bond -- could be all PVC or PEX. Do you know if it will have metal piping before you start and is it covered in your bid? But if you have water pipe to bond, at least you do know what size wire to use in all cases (sized per 250.66). The code requires all metallic piping to be bonded if it could be energized. You could assume your EGC for a gas appliance is sufficient for that, but we know with CSST it isn't. I think you could also argue that a piece of CSST on something you didn't wire would not be part of the electricians job.

I agree that the EGC supplying the gas appliance is sufficient to bond the pipe. The additional requirements for CSST bonding have nothing to do with the potential energization of the CSST. The manufacturer requires it as part of their listing which affects the installer of the product (a plumber) not the electrician. As far as I know the additional bonding requirements for CSST have to do with lightning not possible random energization. If I'm wrong please tell me.

 

[hurk27]

I agree that the EGC supplying the gas appliance is sufficient to bond the pipe. The additional requirements for CSST bonding have nothing to do with the potential energization of the CSST. The manufacturer requires it as part of their listing which affects the installer of the product (a plumber) not the electrician. As far as I know the additional bonding requirements for CSST have to do with lightning not possible random energization. If I'm wrong please tell me.

No you have it very correct.

 

[hurk27]

Here is a PDF on this subject that was sent out in a Mike Holt News Letter:

 

[radiopet]

Paul, here in Indiana we are not even required to take the CSST bonding back to the service, it was recognized that the whole problem with CSST was the current from lightning, and just bonding the one end of the CSST will not prevent this, we are required to bond around it meaning the a #6 conductor or larger has to be run with the CSST to bond both ends together. what help will a bond to the service do if lightning hits a flue or chimney and comes down to this CSST pipe and tries to flow over it back to the GEC of the service. without a bond in parallel with the CSST it can cause the CSST to fail? this has nothing to do with bonding to the service but the bonding of each end of the CSST.

Hurk- I am on the run this morning but my comments are directed at a specific poster in Virginia whom seems to be a bit harsh about his comments so I explained what the laws are in Virginia to him. Regarding the issue on the CSST bond issue as I see it we are dealing with a lighning issues in itself as to the reason the manufacturers got this started but as I read it it can be taken anywhere on the grounding electrode system but the connection point to the CSST portion of the bonding is very specific in regards to the Virginia statewide building code. I am sure it is different in other places but again since the person I was speaking with seemed to assume alot of knowledge on virginia laws I simply wanted to set them clear on it...thats all.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

So do you include in your bid the price of bonding metallic water piping that you didn't install? Or do you expect the plumber to do that? Or do you specifically call out that you will bond water piping and any pipe types are extra cost?

I bond whatever is required in Art. 250. The metallic water pipe, in most cases, is actually an electrode . Same goes for the rebar in a footing and building steel. CSST is a, IMHO, cheap alternative to black pipe and I'll bet one of these days will be deemed illegal. I'm amazed they allow that stuff to be exposed without physical protection especially outside coming off the gas meter!