Can they afford to pay me

[mstrlucky74]

I am going to talk to an owner of a very small shop. One office girl and maybe 15-20 guys working in the field. Is there a way of seeing if they will be able to affors to pay me or might have trouble paying in the near future. I mean, if I ask how much he does a year in businees that really means nothing because whatever it is he may not make a profit. He has been around 15 years but again he could be on the way out.....just looking for advice. Thanks.

 

[__dan]

I am going to talk to an owner of a very small shop. One office girl and maybe 15-20 guys working in the field. Is there a way of seeing if they will be able to affors to pay me or might have trouble paying in the near future. I mean, if I ask how much he does a year in businees that really means nothing because whatever it is he may not make a profit. He has been around 15 years but again he could be on the way out.....just looking for advice. Thanks.

If you ask about his bonding capacity, what type or size of bonded jobs he is interested in, that's probably all the answer you can expect. 15 - 20 guys is a big shop, depending on what type of work they specialize in, what part of the market they chase after.

Assuming, from the type of questions you've been asking, you've been with a big shop chasing after the largest type jobs in your area. You would already know if the guy is a competitor in your market for your jobs. Most likely you have an idea of the size / type of job you like, the employer you target would already be in that market or perhaps you want someone to grow into the market segment you want to be in. That would be the question, is the work suitable for your interests. Asking questions about the customer base and what type of jobs the contractor wants to bid should give you an idea of what is expected.

Asking questions about the future survivability of the business, I don't see any way anyone will give you a straight answer. If you see the guy take out a huge bank loan then go on a spending spree for exotic cars and round the world travel, that's about all the notice you may ever see. A small shop with no bank debt would need the right type of work and customers to make it, which is where you would come in.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I'm thinking that 15 to 20 guys is a big shop too. Biggest shop I worked for had 4 guys in the field. The four man shop paid me a dollar more an hour than his longest guy was making, simply because that's what I needed to make and when his guys found out they were none to happy. So the question is not can he pay what you want, it's will he pay you what you want.

 

[hbiss]

Exactly. It's not a matter of can they afford to pay you but rather what are they willing to pay you. And I can tell you that nowadays they ain't willing to pay anything because they want to line their own pockets.

This is why there are those organizations whose name begins with a "U". :happyyes:

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

It only takes one bad project to make just about any shop have serious financial difficulties these days. The margins are just too tight.

A good bet can turn into a mess overnight.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I am going to talk to an owner of a very small shop. One office girl and maybe 15-20 guys working in the field. Is there a way of seeing if they will be able to affors to pay me or might have trouble paying in the near future. I mean, if I ask how much he does a year in businees that really means nothing because whatever it is he may not make a profit. He has been around 15 years but again he could be on the way out.....just looking for advice. Thanks.

i'm assuming you wish to go to work for him in some capacity.

what do YOU bring to the party? what can YOU offer HIM?

you've been on here a couple years, asking a ton of questions.
in that length of time, did you notice that many of the people
on here are experiencing some pretty severe financial distress?

the fact that he's been in business for 15 years, in this economy,
is a pretty good indicator of his ability.

as you aren't in the field putting stuff in, ask yourself what you
are going to contribute that will both pay your keep, and give
someone a reason to want you there. do you have a reason for
your new potential employer?

this is from electrical contractor magazine:

"So, about 70 percent of the reporting firms operate with fewer
than 10 employees. About 22 percent operate with 10 to 49
employees, and a mere 6 percent reported having more than
50 employees. These figures aren?t necessarily surprising, as
70 percent of the firms might only produce 20 to 30 percent
of the revenues. Large electrical contracting companies, while
fewer in numbers, generate 70 to 80 percent of the industry
revenue.

In small firms, contractors wear several hats, often being the
estimator and accounting supervisor. Conversely, in the companies
with more than 50 employees, there seems to be dedicated positions
for specific tasks. Among small firms, there is no differentiation
between office staff and field staff because the employees perform
both tasks.

Aging industry population

It is no secret that the electrical contracting industry is on the brink
of a major manpower challenge, as leaders scramble to find the next
generation of workers and leaders alike. The average age of the
typical electrical contractor is 50 years old. Regardless of company
size, though, about 60 percent of respondents are between the ages
of 45 and 64, and 73 percent are older than 45. Conversely, a mere
5 percent of the industry?s leaders fall into the 25 to 34 age group,
which is alarming. Also, contractors older than 65 are much more
likely to operate smaller firms."

so..... you want guarantees? bring some of your own. this "really
small shop" is bigger than the ones most of the people who've
been your 1-800-helpline for the last two years are connected with.

just a general suggestion, but perhaps if you operated from a point
of view other than self entitlement, it might be better received.

 

[ptonsparky]

Wow. One office girl for 15-20 guys in the field. Someone is making sure the details are done efficiently.

 

[Daja7]

Exactly. It's not a matter of can they afford to pay you but rather what are they willing to pay you. And I can tell you that nowadays they ain't willing to pay anything because they want to line their own pockets.

This is why there are those organizations whose name begins with a "U". :happyyes:

-Hal

Line their own pockets? You mean like make enough money to make payroll, pay propery taxes, pay employee taxes, unemployment taxes, state , local and federal taxes, pay rent, buy trucks and keep them on the road, buy tools, pay for insurance, licenses and hopefully make a profit so they can stay in business. Risking everything they own to keep and run a business? Yes line their pockets.

 

[cadpoint]

Frankly, I'm trying to understand what you are exactly asking? From what i've read your region is one of the highest paid in the country.

Ok at least in the north part of your State, anyways!

Maybe you feel that your active pay rate will not be met? Maybe it's the petite nature of a small firm? Could you come back and address some of these opinions that have been expressed?

 

[growler]

mstrlucky74, Can they afford to pay me?

If you are real lucky they can.:lol: If not change your name.

 

[hbiss]

Line their own pockets? You mean like make enough money to make payroll, pay propery taxes, pay employee taxes, unemployment taxes, state , local and federal taxes, pay rent, buy trucks and keep them on the road, buy tools, pay for insurance, licenses and hopefully make a profit so they can stay in business. Risking everything they own to keep and run a business? Yes line their pockets.

I think we've all seen companies that don't exactly operate that way. The good ones that take care of their employees do.

But I have to agree with the others in asking the OP what makes you think you can dictate your pay? Are you that good?

-Hal

 

[John120/240]

i'm assuming you wish to go to work for him in some capacity.

what do YOU bring to the party? what can YOU offer HIM?

you've been on here a couple years, asking a ton of questions.
in that length of time, did you notice that many of the people
on here are experiencing some pretty severe financial distress?

the fact that he's been in business for 15 years, in this economy,
is a pretty good indicator of his ability.

as you aren't in the field putting stuff in, ask yourself what you
are going to contribute that will both pay your keep, and give
someone a reason to want you there. do you have a reason for
your new potential employer?

this is from electrical contractor magazine:

"So, about 70 percent of the reporting firms operate with fewer
than 10 employees. About 22 percent operate with 10 to 49
employees, and a mere 6 percent reported having more than
50 employees. These figures aren?t necessarily surprising, as
70 percent of the firms might only produce 20 to 30 percent
of the revenues. Large electrical contracting companies, while
fewer in numbers, generate 70 to 80 percent of the industry
revenue.

In small firms, contractors wear several hats, often being the
estimator and accounting supervisor. Conversely, in the companies
with more than 50 employees, there seems to be dedicated positions
for specific tasks. Among small firms, there is no differentiation
between office staff and field staff because the employees perform
both tasks.

Aging industry population

It is no secret that the electrical contracting industry is on the brink
of a major manpower challenge, as leaders scramble to find the next
generation of workers and leaders alike. The average age of the
typical electrical contractor is 50 years old. Regardless of company
size, though, about 60 percent of respondents are between the ages
of 45 and 64, and 73 percent are older than 45. Conversely, a mere
5 percent of the industry?s leaders fall into the 25 to 34 age group,
which is alarming. Also, contractors older than 65 are much more
likely to operate smaller firms."

so..... you want guarantees? bring some of your own. this "really
small shop" is bigger than the ones most of the people who've
been your 1-800-helpline for the last two years are connected with.

just a general suggestion, but perhaps if you operated from a point
of view other than self entitlement, it might be better received.

Randy, You do have a way with words. horsegoer/mstrlucky take heed of the advice given

 

[Buck Parrish]

I am going to talk to an owner of a very small shop. One office girl and maybe 15-20 guys working in the field. Is there a way of seeing if they will be able to affors to pay me or might have trouble paying in the near future. I mean, if I ask how much he does a year in businees that really means nothing because whatever it is he may not make a profit. He has been around 15 years but again he could be on the way out.....just looking for advice. Thanks.

The other guys in my opinion gave some well thought out advice. What's nice about this forum. Some of the advice given is from experience. And that's priceless.
But going back to your (op's) question. If you were hired in a high enough position , part of your job would be to see that the company makes money.
That's all the employees jobs. Just some take it more seriously then others.
.
I think you would need to know what his current need for an employee is. If he needs some one to run conduit off a lift 40 ft. high in a box store.
A very young guy new to the trade may be faster then a guy in the trade for 25 years who can actually run the job.
So you need to make it clear up front what your intentions are, too.
And if deserved, you will need to demand respect. As other employees may feel like they were passed up on a promotion because of you.

And if a 25 year experienced electrician is on a lift and is slower then the 2 year top helper. That might not be the way to start out with a company.

Some people are just better at things then others are. And a good supervisor can recognize that. And not judge the guy by one job.
On a side note. If you intend , like most people to move up in the company. You need to look around. Does the owner have three sons in high school or an elecectrial tech school,. If so you can count on one or more being your boss one day. Even if he's less experienced.
Please go to the job with a positive attitude and disregard every thing I said, unless it becomes applicable.

 

[dduffee260]

I am going to talk to an owner of a very small shop. One office girl and maybe 15-20 guys working in the field. Is there a way of seeing if they will be able to affors to pay me or might have trouble paying in the near future. I mean, if I ask how much he does a year in businees that really means nothing because whatever it is he may not make a profit. He has been around 15 years but again he could be on the way out.....just looking for advice. Thanks.

Question is are you going to be worth what he is going to have to pay you? I have seen time and time again when an electrician wants top dollar only to find out they were not worth what they were earning.

I have no problem paying a competitive wage to an electrician that is competent. Look if an employee is well worth what he is being paid we usually try and match what they are producing so we can keep them.

I once had an apprentice tell me he did not like the starting pay I wanted to give him. I told him " I tell you what. Let's give it two weeks and you will either get a raise or get fired". Well, two weeks later. Let's just say he didn't get a raise.

If you make the contractor money then most of them will do what they can to keep you. If you are a liability then they cannot keep you. It's all in the dollars.

 

[kwired]

I think we've all seen companies that don't exactly operate that way. The good ones that take care of their employees do.

But I have to agree with the others in asking the OP what makes you think you can dictate your pay? Are you that good?

-Hal

There is a difference between needing a job, and looking for a different job.

There is also sometimes good reason to leave a job for one that pays less.

 

[JJWalecka]

i'm assuming you wish to go to work for him in some capacity.

what do YOU bring to the party? what can YOU offer HIM?.

I Agree.

 

[stevenje]

Wow. One office girl for 15-20 guys in the field. Someone is making sure the details are done efficiently.

One office girl taking care of 15-20 guys in the field is a monumental task. I think the question is should be: can they not afford to pay her more!

 

[augie47]

i'm assuming you wish to go to work for him in some capacity.

what do YOU bring to the party? what can YOU offer HIM?..............................................

.

AMEN !

 

[petersonra]

One office girl taking care of 15-20 guys in the field is a monumental task. I think the question is should be: can they not afford to pay her more!

Maybe, maybe not. Depends a lot on what she is actually doing. If she is the de facto scheduler, payroll clerk, and project manager, she is pretty critical.

If she just answers the phone and files stuff, she may well be readily replaceable. A lot of places have a fair amount of turnover in the clerical area and it really does not matter much. My chiropractor has a fair amount of turnover in his office staff, and I have never noticed much difference.