Electrician Alleges Racism

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Electrician Alleges Racism


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renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I don't know how long this link will be good: http://www.couriernews.net/story/2002473.html I thought we should discuss it in some detail.

I find one comment of particular interest: "He informed me that I could not use the old breaker box and add an additional 100 amp unit, a method that would have been a much cheaper cost and material job than the installation of a 200 amp meter base, new material and labor." Of course, the speaker goes on to assert that the other electrician did exactly that, and was passed.

The inspector is reported to have explained: "He noted Moody took it apart during the inspection and showed Ash it indeed met code requirements." The story also reports: "The electrician is responsible to make sure everything is up to code," Ash said. "Not myself, I'm merely the inspector. I look at it and make sure that it does meet code. As a matter of fact, I'm not even supposed to open the box. The electrician is supposed to do that. On this particular box, I walked up and I opened the bottom cover and there was no cover on it and that's the first violation. When I looked at it, I could see a burnt area in the box. I did not pull the breaker out. I assumed that the bus bar was out. That tells me you have to replace this box. I made a fatal mistake here, I assumed that the bus bar was bad."

I find it interesting that BOTH contractors wanted to have the inspector look at the job before proceeding. Comments?

Considering other expenses involved in a service change, does the price difference between the the panels really matter? (Also, please note that local ordinance would have required the upgrade to include an outside means to disconnect. Many homes here have NO way to disconnect, short of pulling the meter.)

Regarding the race issue, while the inspector is white, the city has a black inspector as well - and a black mayor. The named inspector is a longtime fixture in local government.

Finally, does the "cheap" method used strike anyone as a hack job?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Regarding the race issue, while the inspector is white, the city has a black inspector as well - and a black mayor. The named inspector is a longtime fixture in local government.

For anyone who is not able to follow the link to the article in the future, the reason that the race issue was raised, independent of the race of the inspector, is that the first electrician is black and the "winning bidder" is white.

There apparently is some bad blood between Aldridge (EC #1) and Ash (inspector) based on earlier jobs, and the facts of those incidents are still not clear and are in dispute.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I dont know. My eyes crossed several times while reading the story and while I tried to stay on task I got to thinking about this house a customer is remodeling from the in to out. We need to finish rough in tomorrow. I hope someone has #2, 4 conductor in town. I dont use it often.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I don't see where any electrician alleges racism.

-Hal

Saying "Let's be for real," Aldridge claims he is being treated differently because he is black; Moody is white.
Also by Aldridge (EC #1):
"...Over here now, which could give the city a lawsuit, a guy was over here fixing to build a house in the back, back there. I got him [Ash, inspector] out first. I said, Rick, the guy wants me to build this. I got him out there and he said no way. It's on other people's property, it's this and that. The guy built it anyway, called me out to hook the meter base up. I called Mr. Ash, he went over there. This same job that he told me I couldn't do, he let this Mexican do it."

Ash said he didn't allow the project, noting he sent a letter to the man that warned all his utilities will be cut off if he doesn't tear it down.

It sounds like Mr. Aldridge may have racial/ethnic insensitivity issues of his own. :lol:
 

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
What I could follow is both ECs asked the inspector for a before work intrepatation and guidance to be code compliant.
The Inspector did not meet with EC#1, but instead said to do it the 200Amp meter and new panel way.
EC#2 demonstrated to the Inspector that whatever way was accomplished was OK. The inspector agreed. The question remains did the Inspector look at EC#2 job before or after it was completed? I'm guessing both.

EC#1 was POd because he lost a job because it was done as his original plan (that was disapproved).

So now I'm thinking this house has 2-100 Amp meters, 2-100 amp panels. If so, hack job. I would prefer 1 meter and 1 panel. so would my POCO.
 

__dan

Senior Member
EC #1 should take a few lessons from the Irish. They get in trouble all the time but never seem to claim racial discrimination.

The story does not present the installation details, but from what I could guess at, I would guess single family residence, single meter with failure at the meter socket. EC #1 wanted to change the socket as a repair, keep the old panel, and add another panel for new loads. If the riser was SEU, I would guess new riser and new SEU to the old panel, story doesn't say.

New meter socket with the old SEU would be shameless hack, new meter and SEU with the old panel would be a repair of the failed part.

Gas appliances at the residence, at stated, does not support a load calc requiring the 200 amp. The inspector was wrong there, citing future loads ??? Yep, in the future I will be rich and smart and have hair.

The old panel probably looked like crap, but until it started to fail, could last indefinitely. With heating, rust, or corrosion the old panel would go. Just being crap, the homeowner is allowed to choose to keep it and save money, which is how the job sold, lowest cost for necessary repair.

If he needed or wanted more than 20 circuits but the load was not there, two panels is justifiable vs going to a 30 circuit 200 amp panel on the 100 amp meter and changing the main to 100 amp, which is a lot more, or going to the full 200 amp service, which was not what the owner wanted.

If that's all the trouble EC #1 has to gripe about, he is truly a lucky and blessed man.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Things must really be rough if contractors are fighting over jobs like this.

well, that was my thought.

the whole thing seems a bit smarmy, on first read. and poorly written.
must be one of the new breed of news reporters who types only with
their thumbs on a mobile device.

i had a customer who had a problem. the problem was caused
by a previous electrical contractor.

i came up with a solution to the problem, and presented it.
along with an estimate of about $4k to fix it. it was a very
reasonable price. i wanted to get my foot in the door.

they took my idea, and gave it to the contractor who did
the shitty work in the first place, and paid them $8k to
implement it. the contractor did, but made a hack of it
in the process.

was it racism? no. the customer, while providing work
during the worst part of the depression, in '09~'11 they
helped me keep afloat, was always, and remained, a sub
optimal client.

the taste left in the mouth after dealing with them never
was much different than that first bite.

the last interaction was when they had another brilliant
idea they wanted to implement, and asked me for input,
and i said it would be $1,000 for the design input, that
amount to be deducted from the work, but i wasn't going
to do any more freebies so they could give the work to
someone else.

so, i did the work, and invoiced, and...... nothing. several
emails, phone calls, repeat bills availed nothing, and i
wrote off the $1k.

five months later, the accountant calls and says, can you
resend the bill so we can pay you before the money reverts
back to general fund. so they paid it, five months late.

three months after that, i get another email, saying they
were ready to proceed, but the scope of work had changed,
and could i come by to look at it again. most likely they
had someone else butcher it or whatever, or they shopped
price all over, and couldn't get anyone to touch it.

i'm busy, thank god. with great regret i had to say no.

but i never felt like i needed to sue anyone or get a newspaper
story written about a bad customer. we all have them.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Things rough? You bet. This is in the poorest county of the poorest state of the union. Population has dropped to less than half what it was in 1990. A house that sold new in 1960 for $16K sells today for $8K. IMO, the local economy is in a death spiral. This town has some major challenges to face.

A town this small, it's no surprise I know two of the parties personally, and the third by reputation. I hope I've been able to keep my opinions of the people out of this thread. Good or bad, I don't want to suggest how you should respond.

I agree that the news article was poorly written - but I also note that the reporter at least tried to explain the issues. Contractor "A" certainly didn't speak very clearly when he made his complaint. Most papers would have given this item two small paragraphs.

I will say that I did my own service change - and the effect of my method was stunning to both the inspector and the PoCo. Heck, all I did was make it look like the pictures in the books.

There's a common pattern I find both at home and work: contractors who are simply unable to imagine any way to do things apart from the 'hack' way. Even finding someone who can pour a proper cement pad can be a challenge.

Ironically, the handful of contractors who do things 'right' have plenty of work.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Things rough? You bet. This is in the poorest county of the poorest state of the union. Population has dropped to less than half what it was in 1990. A house that sold new in 1960 for $16K sells today for $8K. IMO, the local economy is in a death spiral. This town has some major challenges to face.

A town this small, it's no surprise I know two of the parties personally, and the third by reputation. I hope I've been able to keep my opinions of the people out of this thread. Good or bad, I don't want to suggest how you should respond.

I agree that the news article was poorly written - but I also note that the reporter at least tried to explain the issues. Contractor "A" certainly didn't speak very clearly when he made his complaint. Most papers would have given this item two small paragraphs.

I will say that I did my own service change - and the effect of my method was stunning to both the inspector and the PoCo. Heck, all I did was make it look like the pictures in the books.

There's a common pattern I find both at home and work: contractors who are simply unable to imagine any way to do things apart from the 'hack' way. Even finding someone who can pour a proper cement pad can be a challenge.

Ironically, the handful of contractors who do things 'right' have plenty of work.

The inspector and POCO must have low standards. Glad that you were able to impress them. Pictures of your install and pictures of the typical installation would be interesting.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I'd post pics, but I'm having some issues with various photo sites and posting pics here. I'll figure it out someday!
Two things to consider (among others) when troubleshooting photo site problems:

1. Make sure that the link you try to put in the forum is not one which is specific to your login session in your browser. If it is, the link will work for you but not for anyone else. This also assumes that you have made access to the photos public, without any login, even a free login, required.
2. Make sure that the photo site is one which allows isolated deep links from third party sites rather than requiring you to negotiate their own menu system to get to the photo.
 

rt66electric

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
EC #1 is a whinney BUTT

EC #1 is a whinney BUTT

Stuff happens , win some, lose some. go for the next one, the customer decided who got that job.


If EC# 1 spent as much time chasing NEW work, instead of OLD work, he would be fine,
 
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