Estimating question

[Bacchus]

The Job includes two outside spotlights with a switch and receptacle in garage:

Two outside simple spotlights
The kind with two screw in bulbs. They'll go under the eves in the back of the house. They are at the ends of either side about 70 feet between them. Both will go to a switch near the exit of the house to the backyard. The power will come from the panel.

Receptacle in the garage:
He needs it near his garage door. The builders obviously left one out by his front of his garage. I'm likely going to have to tap into one of the receptacles in the back of the garage and bring it out to the front, which will be a pain.

Misc info:
175 feet of #14 wire for outside lights & receptacles
Panel is fairly close to where switch will be
Supplies $90-120

*Some unknowns:
*Didn't go up in the attic. It was a rush explanation of job information from him (my fault there).
*Drill holes for wires in joist/rafters?
*Lay 2x4s for a track across joists?
*Attic likely clean. His garage is spotless and so is the house.


For you pros, how many hours would you bill for this? What would be your total bill? I'll tell you what I bid and why afterward.


TIA.

 

[Bacchus]

a bit more

a bit more

Sorry, this may seem like such a simple 'bid' and indeed it is. Who cares is I get it or not. It's just a neighbor friend who may really think my prices are too high.



I bid 5 hours for the job + supplies.


TIA

 

[readydave8]

8 if i get it done in 5 then i don't have to work any more that day

 

[sparkyrick]

The Job includes two outside spotlights with a switch and receptacle in garage:

Two outside simple spotlights
The kind with two screw in bulbs. They'll go under the eves in the back of the house. They are at the ends of either side about 70 feet between them. Both will go to a switch near the exit of the house to the backyard. The power will come from the panel.

Receptacle in the garage:
He needs it near his garage door. The builders obviously left one out by his front of his garage. I'm likely going to have to tap into one of the receptacles in the back of the garage and bring it out to the front, which will be a pain.

Misc info:
175 feet of #14 wire for outside lights & receptacles
Panel is fairly close to where switch will be
Supplies $90-120


*Some unknowns:
*Didn't go up in the attic. It was a rush explanation of job information from him (my fault there).
*Drill holes for wires in joist/rafters?
*Lay 2x4s for a track across joists?
*Attic likely clean. His garage is spotless and so is the house.


For you pros, how many hours would you bill for this? What would be your total bill? I'll tell you what I bid and why afterward.


TIA.

Sorry, this may seem like such a simple 'bid' and indeed it is. Who cares is I get it or not. It's just a neighbor friend who may really think my prices are too high.



I bid 5 hours for the job + supplies.


TIA

If its a neighbor friend, no bid at all. Time and material is the way to go.

 

[Bacchus]

8 if i get it done in 5 then i don't have to work any more that day

You are so right. I was thinking that. Why would anyone bid a job for 5 hours because you know for sure you can't do anything afterward. I'll think about that if I go to a house that wants a small bid on something over 4 hours.

 

[Bacchus]

If its a neighbor friend, no bid at all. Time and material is the way to go.

Perhaps not that good of a friend. I'd barely charge or do it for free if he were a true friend. I'd say that we are just friendly with each other.

My problem with doing T&M is he asked for a price for the job. Perhaps he wanted to compare? Or if it were too much then forget it. Also, I'm not a very efficient worker. At least not on residential. Most of my experience is industrial and commercial. It's like a whole 'nother ball game with residential.

Laterz.

 

[growler]

The Job includes two outside spotlights with a switch and receptacle in garage: The power will come from panel.

Misc info:
175 feet of #14 wire for outside lights & receptacles
Panel is fairly close to where switch will be
Supplies $90-120

Who provides the spotlights and lamps?

Power from panel? extended or new circuit probably requires combination arc fault breaker. If it's say a cutler CH that's expensive.

Any permit cost?

As readydave8 says it's probably an allday job.

It's summer and attics get hot so it's not a good idea to work up there to long at one time.

 

[Bacchus]

Who provides the spotlights and lamps?

Power from panel? extended or new circuit probably requires combination arc fault breaker. If it's say a cutler CH that's expensive.

Any permit cost?

As readydave8 says it's probably an allday job.

It's summer and attics get hot so it's not a good idea to work up there to long at one time.

1) no permit
2) I supply everything
3) AFCI should not be needed. These are for outside lights and it's in a garage.
* I was thinking. Wow.... you know, there will be a switch inside a small office. Do I still need one??? This is scaring me now. I was thinking this is a circuit for outside but maybe not.
4) all day job, right. I'll remember that next time. I agree with you. It should be an all dayer for one person. I might split it up.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[sparkyrick]

1) no permit
2) I supply everything
3) AFCI should not be needed. These are for outside lights and it's in a garage.
* I was thinking. Wow.... you know, there will be a switch inside a small office. Do I still need one??? This is scaring me now. I was thinking this is a circuit for outside but maybe not.
4) all day job, right. I'll remember that next time. I agree with you. It should be an all dayer for one person. I might split it up.

Thanks for the tip.

Or just walk away. I gave up on side jobs years ago. I'd rather be boating on a nice weekend than crawling around in a hot attic.

 

[growler]

1) no permit

3) AFCI should not be needed. These are for outside lights and it's in a garage.
* I was thinking. Wow.... you know, there will be a switch inside a small office. Do I still need one??? This is scaring me now. I was thinking this is a circuit for outside but maybe not.

If there is no permit then don't worry about it.

Cash sale and no receipt.

I was only thinking of the little things (cost) that can come up when a job is inspected. There are areas here that would charge $200 for a permit and could go as high a $65 on a Arc fault ( just for once switch in an office ).

 

[Bacchus]

Update on existing bid

Update on existing bid

I'm replying to this older thread to update on what happened with the bid.

From what I gather the neighbor shopped my bid out. He told me that they came in around $200 below mine, which was incredible. But eventually he didn't have them put in the receptacle in because he thought it was too much (so in actuality it was really only $100 below my bid). There's no way they could have made anything on that job. I told him he got a good deal and should really consider himself lucky, but he was kind of hinting at me doing the receptaple part at a reduced price. I didn't budge on it. I also told him I was going to do things differently and more in line with what a nice home he has rather than, say, connecting to a light in the attic for the receptacle in the garage, as he suggested I should do. I would tie into his other receptacles in the garage to keep it clean and also put in a double gang receptacles (single gang is so 1980s).

It's a cut throat business around here (since the 2008 housing crash) so I'm really not going to disprespect the larger company for cutting corners. For instance, for the outside lights they tied into the lights in the house and the AFCI in the panel. That can save some good money. Perhaps it's worth thinking about on future jobs. I was going to run a separate circuit for all of it. Maybe it's just survival in the new economy.

Bacchus

 

[John120/240]

Misc info:
175 feet of #14 wire for outside lights & receptacles
Panel is fairly close to where switch will be
Supplies $90-120

Add more MARK UP to your material

I'm replying to this older thread to update on what happened with the bid.

From what I gather the neighbor shopped my bid out. He told me that they came in around $200 below mine, which was incredible. But eventually he didn't have them put in the receptacle in because he thought it was too much (so in actuality it was really only $100 below my bid). There's no way they could have made anything on that job. I told him he got a good deal and should really consider himself lucky, but he was kind of hinting at me doing the receptaple part at a reduced price. I didn't budge on it. I also told him I was going to do things differently and more in line with what a nice home he has rather than, say, connecting to a light in the attic for the receptacle in the garage, as he suggested I should do. I would tie into his other receptacles in the garage to keep it clean and also put in a double gang receptacles (single gang is so 1980s).

It's a cut throat business around here (since the 2008 housing crash) so I'm really not going to disprespect the larger company for cutting corners. For instance, for the outside lights they tied into the lights in the house and the AFCI in the panel. That can save some good money. Perhaps it's worth thinking about on future jobs. I was going to run a separate circuit for all of it. Maybe it's just survival in the new economy.

Bacchus

Bacchus Thank You for the update
You are in Business to MAKE Money. A separate circuit to serve two outdoor flood lights & a garage receptacle ??
I would look at all options as where to get power from. A separate circuit would be the last option & only if the load necessitated it.

 

[CT Tom]

I'm replying to this older thread to update on what happened with the bid.

From what I gather the neighbor shopped my bid out. He told me that they came in around $200 below mine, which was incredible. But eventually he didn't have them put in the receptacle in because he thought it was too much (so in actuality it was really only $100 below my bid). There's no way they could have made anything on that job. I told him he got a good deal and should really consider himself lucky, but he was kind of hinting at me doing the receptaple part at a reduced price. I didn't budge on it. I also told him I was going to do things differently and more in line with what a nice home he has rather than, say, connecting to a light in the attic for the receptacle in the garage, as he suggested I should do. I would tie into his other receptacles in the garage to keep it clean and also put in a double gang receptacles (single gang is so 1980s).

It's a cut throat business around here (since the 2008 housing crash) so I'm really not going to disprespect the larger company for cutting corners. For instance, for the outside lights they tied into the lights in the house and the AFCI in the panel. That can save some good money. Perhaps it's worth thinking about on future jobs. I was going to run a separate circuit for all of it. Maybe it's just survival in the new economy.

Bacchus

My Father, 71 has been in business since 1961. The one thing he always drilled home was the saying "Stay home, stay even"

 

[BSK3720]

1) no permit
2) I supply everything
3) AFCI should not be needed. These are for outside lights and it's in a garage.
* I was thinking. Wow.... you know, there will be a switch inside a small office. Do I still need one??? This is scaring me now. I was thinking this is a circuit for outside but maybe not.
4) all day job, right. I'll remember that next time. I agree with you. It should be an all dayer for one person. I might split it up.

Thanks for the tip.

AFCI clarification: Would an inspector ask for AFCI on this circuit? Outside lights are not required to be AFCI protected. The switch in the office is not an outlet, so no AFCI required there, either. What am I missing?

 

[GoldDigger]

As of [2014], at least some of the language refers to devices in the protected area, not just outlets. A switch and a receptacle are both devices. A hard wired light has an outlet associated with it, but not a device. Gets interesting.

 

[Bacchus]

AFCI clarification: Would an inspector ask for AFCI on this circuit? Outside lights are not required to be AFCI protected. The switch in the office is not an outlet, so no AFCI required there, either. What am I missing?

210.12 (A)
... All 120V single phase ... branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed.... [devices was changed in this code so not just outlest anymore. So that would obviously mean switches. They should just say a device, IMHO. Maybe next code change. An outlet is a device while not all devices are outlets. ]

Definition:
Device: A unit of electrical system, other than a conductor, that carries or controls [emphasis mine] electrical energy as its principal function.