Creating estimate for service change-out/upgrade, my first "official" estimate...

[kwired]

I am always surprised when someone states that doing a service change is just a one day job!
All the service changes that I have done require the following:
Talking to customer on phone to arrange visit. Drive to job and SELL the job to the customer.

Prepare a proposal and send via email.
Once estimated is accepted then do everything that is involved in pulling the permit.
The day before the job I purchase all of the materials. Then I spend one day at the job site completing work.
I then arrange for the inspection and meet the inspector at the job site and collect the final payment.

I figure that this requires at least 2-3 days!

I have hardly ever just done a panel change and no additional work. Exception is for one that is failing in some way and is obvious it needs to be changed. About only time no branch circuits were added is if it were an old fuse box , but many of those you still add circuits to because once they don't have 30 amp fuses on 15 amp conductors anymore you find circuits that need spit up to lessen load on them.

Upgrading an otherwise good condition 100 amp panel to a 200 amp panel is seldom something I have done unless there is remodeling going on with it, adding more load or something of that nature.

 

[sw_ross]

Additional work

Additional work

That's very true! Usually a panel change-out or service upgrade is connected to additional work that is being done. Whether they need some new circuits run and the load exceeds what the existing panel can handle, or other work.

In the case of the HO's home I'm giving the quote to, they say that they have old 2-prong outlets that they want to change to grounded outlets. I know how much of a possible PITA that can turn into depending on how the wiring is set up, and how many changes might have been done over the years! I told them over the phone that I have to find the head of each circuit (if one exists!) and install a gfci before I can change out the rest.

I'm going to tell them that part of the quote will be on a T&M basis!

 

[growler]

I've done lots of service change-outs/upgrades, but they've all been while working for others.
I recently got my contracting license and am venturing out on my own.
Have a person that wants a quote for a change-out/upgrade, among other misc things.
I haven't seen the house yet.

My initial thought is to create a mtl list for what is needed to complete the service, add a markup, then estimate hours to do work, calculate an hourly rate that covers my overhead and an hourly wage for myself.

I've heard talk of people using a flat rate pricing for work similar to this, that scares me! Maybe after having a bunch under my belt I will be able to "eye-ball" the job and give a price...

Any recommendations are appreciated!
Thanks!

Most of the time it's a good idea to see the house and get an idea of how much work there is to do.

Many service upgrades can be easy but some are not so easy. Don't be afraid to add extra labor if you see there are going to be problems.

If a customer wants an estimate over the phone there is a good change it will be at least 50% higher than if I actually see the job. I would rather take a chance on loseing the job than working for free or losing money.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Fulthrotl has an interesting way to look at it.
Thinking about it for lower priced items, say a ceiling fan cut-in, I would only do a phone estimate.
For the same reason, unless I was already right there, it could take more time driving, and going in the home than then it was worth. If I'm going to go thru all that then I want to do the work. Not entertain price shoppers, DIY questions, planers for a later date.

That said there is also something to being there for a sales call. It's more than just giving a price or estimating materials. It's about providing confidence in your service and making a sale.

I never expect to close all sales calls, but I do wonder Fulthrotl's close rate.

Everyone has their amount or requirements they can justify a free sales call, bid, estimate.
For me if it was a days work I would chase after it.
But if Fulthrotl can do well without that, then my hats off to him.

well, it's a bar napkin quote.
it gets the customer a number *right now* that they can chew over.
i have no hard numbers on the win/loss ratio on those phone quotes.
but i have no significant investment in producing them, either.

but you'd have to be even crazier than i sometimes sound to show up
cold with material based on a two minute phone conversation.

my speed quote simply means i'm not wasting time driving out to an
unqualified customers house. that is a huge hit to my profitability.

the person says yes, let's go, i come by on the way home from work,
at the end of the day, and look at it, talk to the customer, and see how
it feels.

if i see they need an 800 amp switch, or a flux capacitor, i explain that
their situation is not typical, and offer to email a formal quote defining
the scope of work, in writing, so they can make an informed decision,
and get accurate competitive bids.

what happens if it's someone that no way for whatever reason, i don't
want to touch this job? that probably happens between 10%~20% of
the time.

i explain that upon looking at the job, i'm not able to help them with it,
but if it would help them, i'd be happy to take a look at the quotes they
do get, so that they don't get taken advantage of. sometimes they
take me up on it. it works for both of us. they get informed feedback
on picking a contractor, and i get to see how my competition bids stuff.

everyone is a potential referral. 80% of my current income was from
a person who i never do work for any more. i did two jobs for them,
two years ago. i still get referrals from them.

 

[blkmagik21]

That's very true! Usually a panel change-out or service upgrade is connected to additional work that is being done. Whether they need some new circuits run and the load exceeds what the existing panel can handle, or other work.

In the case of the HO's home I'm giving the quote to, they say that they have old 2-prong outlets that they want to change to grounded outlets. I know how much of a possible PITA that can turn into depending on how the wiring is set up, and how many changes might have been done over the years! I told them over the phone that I have to find the head of each circuit (if one exists!) and install a gfci before I can change out the rest.

I'm going to tell them that part of the quote will be on a T&M basis!

Just quote it as if you had to put a GFCI at every outlet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coppersmith]

I am always surprised when someone states that doing a service change is just a one day job!
All the service changes that I have done require the following:
Talking to customer on phone to arrange visit. Drive to job and SELL the job to the customer.

Like you, I always visit prospective panel change jobs because they are very profitable and being there in person makes it much more likely I will get the job, especially if I am the first one to show up among a group of competitors. I also want to see what I'm getting into so I can quote correctly.

Prepare a proposal and send via email.

I write up the proposal while I'm there and present it. Again I'm much more likely to make the sale in person. I can read their reaction, If I'm higher, sometimes they will tell me what others have bid. It allows me the opportunity to overcome the objection or possibly offer a discount. If I make the sale, I have them sign the proposal (where it says they agree to the terms) and give me a check for 10%. This keeps them from changing their mind and going with another vendor after I leave.

Once estimated is accepted then do everything that is involved in pulling the permit.

I'm able to pull permits online. It takes 15 minutes.

The day before the job I purchase all of the materials. Then I spend one day at the job site completing work. I then arrange for the inspection and meet the inspector at the job site and collect the final payment.

Since I'm usually scheduling out a week. I pick up the materials the next time I happen to be at the store for another job. I usually don't make a special trip. The panel change itself is 6-7 hours. I collect full payment as soon as I'm done. (If they refuse to pay me and I'm still on the property, I have the right to remove what I just installed.) Before I leave, I ask the HO when they can be home for the inspector. I'm not required to be there. (I understand some of you are required to be there.) My proposal specifically states the HO is required to be there. I schedule the inspection for that day and note in my appointment book to check the result online. If it passes, I'm done. If not, I call the HO to arrange coming over to fix the problem.

I figure that this requires at least 2-3 days!

All told, I've invested about 9-11 hours in the job. More than one day, yes, but not much.