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  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    You must use insulation rated for highest voltage present in the cable/raceway. Normally you are using 600 volt rated conductors, with 120 volt power circuit being present you only would be required to have 120 volt insulation - though something rated either 300 or 600 volts will be much more common to come up with.

    You also still must "reclassify" the entire class 2 circuit. That means you can't just run 600 volt conductor where you wish to run with power conductors, you must also land in devices rated for class 1/power applications.

    See 725.130 exception 2 and informational note that follows.
    Thanks, I thought so.

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
    So spoke to engineer yesterday and he said you can combine class 2 with 120v power wiring if the class 2 insulation id rated for 600v. I've heard of this before but thought there was a caveat. Maybe it's the reclassifying if you do this???
    You must use insulation rated for highest voltage present in the cable/raceway. Normally you are using 600 volt rated conductors, with 120 volt power circuit being present you only would be required to have 120 volt insulation - though something rated either 300 or 600 volts will be much more common to come up with.

    You also still must "reclassify" the entire class 2 circuit. That means you can't just run 600 volt conductor where you wish to run with power conductors, you must also land in devices rated for class 1/power applications.

    See 725.130 exception 2 and informational note that follows.

    Leave a comment:


  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    So spoke to engineer yesterday and he said you can combine class 2 with 120v power wiring if the class 2 insulation id rated for 600v. I've heard of this before but thought there was a caveat. Maybe it's the reclassifying if you do this???

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
    I see nowhere in Section 725 that class 2 and 120v can’t be in the same box. Issue is I have 120v(in conduit) and class 2 dimming going to the same ballast/driver in a fixture. I’m bring the class 2 “free air” and the 120v

    Scenario #1 – Have power conduit going directly into downlight box. Guess one could just bring in the 0-10v class 2 into a different ko on the box as it’s attached to the downlight.

    Scenario #2- Tricky one. Would one need separate whips to separate j-boxes for the 0-10v class 2.?

    Thanks.
    If 0-10V is indeed class 2 they must be in separate wiring methods or a listed assembly that effectively separates the two circuits per the listing.

    If it is class 2 circuit that has been "reclassified" then it is no longer a class 2 circuit. But that means the entire circuit becomes class 1, you can't throw in class 2 cabling or devices wherever you decide is convenient.

    More common example over the years of this is HVAC thermostat wiring. If you decided to reclassify the control circuit as class 1 circuit to be able to run thermostat wiring with the supply power wiring - you can't run typical 18 ga thermostat cable in the raceway, it would have to be 300 or 600 volt conductors. You also can not connect it to typical 24 volt class 2 rated wall thermostat - it would have to be a thermostat rated for line voltage since it is not a class 2 circuit even though it is still 24 volts.

    Leave a comment:


  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    I see nowhere in Section 725 that class 2 and 120v can’t be in the same box. Issue is I have 120v(in conduit) and class 2 dimming going to the same ballast/driver in a fixture. I’m bring the class 2 “free air” and the 120v

    Scenario #1 – Have power conduit going directly into downlight box. Guess one could just bring in the 0-10v class 2 into a different ko on the box as it’s attached to the downlight.

    Scenario #2- Tricky one. Would one need separate whips to separate j-boxes for the 0-10v class 2.?

    Thanks.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
    I looked at the fixture driver cuts and they are marked class 2.
    Which means you can use class 2 wiring methods and other class 2 items on the circuit.

    You also are allowed to reclassify it as class 1 and run the wires in same conduit as your power wiring, but that also means the entire control circuit gets reclassified as class 1. You can not mix and match things to suit your wants/needs once you do this.

    Leave a comment:


  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    Originally posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I have seen the dimming drivers with the dimming circuit marked as suitable for both Class 1 and Class 2 wiring.

    I looked at the fixture driver cuts and they are marked class 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • don_resqcapt19
    replied
    Originally posted by petersonra View Post
    I thought if it was listed equipment it pretty much did. And luminaires have to be listed.

    Take a look at 725.121(A)(3) exception #2
    I have seen the dimming drivers with the dimming circuit marked as suitable for both Class 1 and Class 2 wiring.

    Leave a comment:


  • petersonra
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Just because it is 0-10 volt doesn't automatically mean this control loop is a class 2 circuit.
    I thought if it was listed equipment it pretty much did. And luminaires have to be listed.

    Take a look at 725.121(A)(3) exception #2

    Leave a comment:


  • petersonra
    replied
    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
    So is it ok per code to run class 2 without conduit?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    725.3 Other Articles. Circuits and equipment shall comply
    with the articles or sections listed in 725.3(A) through (N).
    [COLOR="#FF0000"]Only those sections of Article 300 referenced in this article
    shall apply to Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3 circuits.[/COLOR]
    Does it say anywhere in article 725 that class 2 circuits require conduit?

    Leave a comment:


  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    So is it ok per code to run class 2 without conduit?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by ActionDave View Post
    The TFFN was for the 0-10V dimming.
    Probably legal then. That should be a power limited control circuit and not branch circuit wiring.

    Leave a comment:


  • ActionDave
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Branch circuit taps for luminaires is legal, but need more details to know if what you did was legal. If entire branch circuit was run with 16 AWG, it probably wasn't legal, taps from the main circuit to individual luminaires with 16 AWG very possibly was legal.
    The TFFN was for the 0-10V dimming.

    Leave a comment:


  • mstrlucky74
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Just because it is 0-10 volt doesn't automatically mean this control loop is a class 2 circuit.

    I check the drivers and they are class 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
    When you have an MC job is great you can you the MC-PCS but what about when you have an all EMT job?? I was thinking the whips from the integral 0-10drivers could be the MC-PCS cable but then I'd be landing that cable in a common j-box and splicing the 120v and 0-10v in same box. Is that allowed even if I ran the class 2 0-10v free air and not in conduit from there?

    The triangle is the 0-10v wire and the circle is the 120v.
    Just because it is 0-10 volt doesn't automatically mean this control loop is a class 2 circuit.

    Leave a comment:

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