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    #16
    Originally posted by cowboyjwc View Post
    You may have, but your answer was correct.
    Thanx!
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
      If you have a bunch of these to hang, would it be easier to hire a rigging company? They're used to lifting heavy things to strange places...
      I would absolutely do this ^^^
      I would not want any liability for damaging property or personnel.

      I must ask....how is something like this even in your scope of work? Are you the primary contractor?
      "Displays" sounds like they are signs to me.
      I would hire a rigger or sign contractor...period

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by cdslotz View Post
        I would absolutely do this ^^^
        I would not want any liability for damaging property or personnel.

        I must ask....how is something like this even in your scope of work? Are you the primary contractor?
        "Displays" sounds like they are signs to me.
        I would hire a rigger or sign contractor...period
        Where do you draw the line on hiring a "rigger"?

        Setting light poles is EC or rigger job?

        Running 4" RMC at a 30 foot ceiling - EC or rigger job?

        Hanging large luminaire - EC or rigger job?

        Setting a large switchboard or MCC in place?

        EC may choose to use rigger but I don't think those tasks and many others are outside what might be expected from an EC either.
        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by kwired View Post
          Where do you draw the line on hiring a "rigger"? ... EC may choose to use rigger but I don't think those tasks and many others are outside what might be expected from an EC either.

          Setting light poles is EC or rigger job? << If the EC has the bucket/crane truck to set the poles, go for it. Who pours the foundation and sets the anchor bolts?

          Running 4" RMC at a 30 foot ceiling - EC or rigger job? << EC-- with a pair of scissor lifts, one at each end of the pipe.

          Hanging large luminaire - EC or rigger job? << EC-- with a scissor lift; probably 2 guys up there.

          Setting a large switchboard or MCC in place? << EC-- but who drives the fork lift? Don't you have to be 'licensed' to drive one in most plants?


          Company I worked for had a fireproof safe/vault to be installed, and later, moved. It's about 6' wide, 7' tall, and 4' deep. Weighs the proverbial ton. It was definitely a 'rigger' job!


          When the OP mentioned several 500# displays, I imagined they were electronic display panels, like one of those signboard complexes dangling overhead at the airport-- 3 or 4 screens around a central mount. As someone asked-- how strong is the ceiling?


          I think the decision has to be based on the EC doing the job-- what are their skills, equipment, training, etc. Not every EC has the right mix to do every job.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by cdslotz View Post
            I would absolutely do this ^^^
            I would not want any liability for damaging property or personnel.

            I must ask....how is something like this even in your scope of work? Are you the primary contractor?
            "Displays" sounds like they are signs to me.
            I would hire a rigger or sign contractor...period

            Our union claims the work since there is power/data( we are doing the power and data) being brought to the unit.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by PaulMmn View Post
              Setting light poles is EC or rigger job? << If the EC has the bucket/crane truck to set the poles, go for it. Who pours the foundation and sets the anchor bolts? EC can't get mad at anyone else if he did the base and bolts aren't set in correct pattern

              Running 4" RMC at a 30 foot ceiling - EC or rigger job? << EC-- with a pair of scissor lifts, one at each end of the pipe.

              Hanging large luminaire - EC or rigger job? << EC-- with a scissor lift; probably 2 guys up there.

              Setting a large switchboard or MCC in place? << EC-- but who drives the fork lift? Don't you have to be 'licensed' to drive one in most plants?In the operating portion of existing plant, usually, New plant under construction or a new addition with primarily only the construction crews in there maybe not.


              Company I worked for had a fireproof safe/vault to be installed, and later, moved. It's about 6' wide, 7' tall, and 4' deep. Weighs the proverbial ton. It was definitely a 'rigger' job! Was remodeling a bank maybe 25 or so years ago. New vault was built, I was there the day the vault door showed up. I don't recall what it weighed, but they rounded up a fairly large forklift from nearby lumber yard to unload it from the truck. The installers had equipment to handle it once it was off the truck. They tried to lift it and back wheels of fork lift come off the ground. They asked me and a couple other guys working there (from GC's crew) to help. We sat on back end of fork lift to help counter balance it. Might not have been good with OSHA had something gone wrong All we needed to do was get it off truck, the installers were able to take it from there. This lift should have been able to lift well over a proverbial ton.


              When the OP mentioned several 500# displays, I imagined they were electronic display panels, like one of those signboard complexes dangling overhead at the airport-- 3 or 4 screens around a central mount. As someone asked-- how strong is the ceiling? Hopefully someone else designed for it, OP is primarily an estimator.


              I think the decision has to be based on the EC doing the job-- what are their skills, equipment, training, etc. Not every EC has the right mix to do every job.
              I can agree with that. Don't know if OP's company is selling and responsible for installing these items or not. If a sign company is involved you would think they would hang them, OP's company may run some wiring to them, then sign company likely installs/confirms software side of it is working also.
              I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                Our union claims the work since there is power/data( we are doing the power and data) being brought to the unit.
                I'm sure that your company has competent journeymen who can hang these units, if not call the hall. Work=money so why give any of it away.
                Rob

                Moderator

                All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                  Our union claims the work since there is power/data( we are doing the power and data) being brought to the unit.
                  Did your company sell these items? Is your company responsible for replacement/repair if you damage them while handling them?

                  Not saying you shouldn't hang them, just that it may not be worth it to hang them in some conditions. If you made a markup from selling them, that helps offset some the cost risks should you damage them. If you raised your bid price to cover cost of hanging them, may come out ok as well. If you just said we will do this (for whatever reason) but didn't factor in any additional costs to add to the bid/job price and something happens, may not break the bank, but can still lower profits. You need to know what those numbers are an how much they might hurt.
                  I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                    Our union claims the work since there is power/data( we are doing the power and data) being brought to the unit.
                    How was this work estimated?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by kwired View Post
                      Did your company sell these items? Is your company responsible for replacement/repair if you damage them while handling them?

                      Not saying you shouldn't hang them, just that it may not be worth it to hang them in some conditions. If you made a markup from selling them, that helps offset some the cost risks should you damage them. If you raised your bid price to cover cost of hanging them, may come out ok as well. If you just said we will do this (for whatever reason) but didn't factor in any additional costs to add to the bid/job price and something happens, may not break the bank, but can still lower profits. You need to know what those numbers are an how much they might hurt.
                      If we didn't sell the unit and are just hitting power/data, why would you want to fight the company providing the units? HVAC provides and sets the units we hit them with power, control could be by others, what does your bid say?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by cdslotz View Post
                        How was this work estimated?
                        What do you mean?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by kwired View Post
                          Did your company sell these items? Is your company responsible for replacement/repair if you damage them while handling them?

                          Not saying you shouldn't hang them, just that it may not be worth it to hang them in some conditions. If you made a markup from selling them, that helps offset some the cost risks should you damage them. If you raised your bid price to cover cost of hanging them, may come out ok as well. If you just said we will do this (for whatever reason) but didn't factor in any additional costs to add to the bid/job price and something happens, may not break the bank, but can still lower profits. You need to know what those numbers are an how much they might hurt.
                          Furnished by others installed by us. We figured for the install.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                            Furnished by others installed by us. We figured for the install.
                            Pretty standard for your area. 500 pounds isn't that heavy so it shouldn't be a problem.
                            Rob

                            Moderator

                            All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                              What do you mean?
                              How much labor do you have to hang these?
                              How much did you include for lifts/rigging?
                              How much did you include for supports for 550 lb units (welding, strut,etc) and were there structural details for this on the drawings?

                              very easy question.....

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by cdslotz View Post
                                How was this work estimated?
                                Originally posted by mstrlucky74 View Post
                                Furnished by others installed by us. We figured for the install.
                                Originally posted by cdslotz View Post
                                How much labor do you have to hang these?
                                How much did you include for lifts/rigging?
                                How much did you include for supports for 550 lb units (welding, strut,etc) and were there structural details for this on the drawings?

                                very easy question.....
                                I think they had it included in bid/other agreements. If they didn't factor in enough cost, then they lose on some profits.
                                I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                                Comment

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