Residential refrigerator tripping GFI

[Jps1006]

I need some advice from my peers on how to properly advise the homeowner on a service call. I was called out because the power to her KitchenAid built-in was out. I found a counter top GFI tripped that wouldn't reset. When I unplugged the fridge (after a nightmare of pulling it out) the GFI reset and held. When I plugged it back in it popped. when I tried another GFI circuit, popped again. When I tried a non-GFI outlet it held. Everything appeared to be fine. I took amp readings on hot, neutral, and ground individually at the outlet and the readings were floating between .8 and .6 amp, then would spike and fall, I couldn't tell if there was something wrong with my tester. At first I thought I was getting .02-.04 amps on the ground, but then I was also getting .02 in air, so that may have been the tester.

Appliance repair guy (via phone call) says that it needs to be plugged in to a nonGFI outlet. But it had been this way for 12 years. It's holding now that I pulled to the line side of the GFI.

Do I insist that she have the appliance guy find why it trips a GFI and correct it?
Or do I let the appliance get away with "an older appliance can't be on a GFI"?
If he sticks with that, do I recommend she buy a new one?

 

[480sparky]

Refrigerators are not required to be on GFCI.

If the receptacle it's plugged into does not serve the countertop, it can be a plain-jane recep.

But as for 'it's been fine for 12 years', well..... you got yourself a man-made machine... it's gonna wear out and break down. The leakage current finally made it to where the GFI would trip.

Moving an amp meter between the three conductors will not give you an accurate enough reading on any conductor to determine if there's a ground fault. Besides, you have to measure each one at the same time.

 

[jim dungar]

Check the heater for the automatic defrost. These heaters are usually just barely insulated from ground. A little moisture on them can easily create a path to ground.

 

[Ohmy]

Refrigerators are not required to be on GFCI.

If the receptacle it's plugged into does not serve the countertop, it can be a plain-jane recep.

[/I].

It just can't be located in the Kitchen, garage, unfinised basement, or outside if your jurisdiction has adopted 2008 NEC.

 

[billsnuff]

iowa is 2008 except

iowa is 2008 except

for 210.8, then it is the '05 version.

 

[480sparky]

It just can't be located in the Kitchen, garage, unfinised basement, or outside if your jurisdiction has adopted 2008 NEC.

According to 210.8(A) only the receps that serve the c'tops need GFId. If the recep is behind the fridge, then it doesn't need GFId.

 

[LarryFine]

JPS, one experiment would be to see if the GFCI holds if you use a 3-to-2-prong adapter to temporarily lift the EGC. An ice-maker water line could fool you, too.

 

[ceb58]

My diagnosis, using the SWAG method, is that after 12 years the compressor has finally accumulated enough moisture in it to start voltage leakage to ground and the GFCI is doing its job. If, as stated, the defrost element is eliminated as the cause then a HVAC person should try pumping the freon from the system, flood it with nitrogen to remove the moisture and recharge. Or replace the fridge which ever is the most cost effective

 

[eric7379]

My diagnosis, using the SWAG method, is that after 12 years the compressor has finally accumulated enough moisture in it to start voltage leakage to ground and the GFCI is doing its job. If, as stated, the defrost element is eliminated as the cause then a HVAC person should try pumping the freon from the system, flood it with nitrogen to remove the moisture and recharge. Or replace the fridge which ever is the most cost effective

A compressor should not accumulate moisture over time. The only way for moisture to be introduced into the system is through the copper lines and the compressor case, all of which is hermetically sealed. The only reason that moisture would be in the refrigerant would be if there was a leak in the system, or the fridge was not manufactured correctly and the system was not properly evacuated before being filled with refrigerant. Flooding the system with dry nitrogen will not remove all moisture from the system. A vacuum pump would need to be put on the system before it could be recharged.
My guess would be that it is probably somethiing along the lines of the defrost heater. If it is a breakdown of the insulation of the compressor motor windings (possibly because the compressor motor has been cooking itself to death because the OP noted that he struggled to slide the fridge out, which might mean that it was a tight fit and not enough air circulation), then I would not even monkey around with having it fixed, especially being 12 years old. Just get a new one. It would be more cost effective.

 

[JES2727]

.... being 12 years old. Just get a new one. It would be more cost effective.

My fridge is about 22 years old. My wife is all over me about getting a new one. But the newer nicer fridges won't fit in the existing spot, so a new fridge comes with a new kitchen. I figure about $30K.
Just fix the old one.....

 

[emahler]

My fridge is about 22 years old. My wife is all over me about getting a new one. But the newer nicer fridges won't fit in the existing spot, so a new fridge comes with a new kitchen. I figure about $30K.
Just fix the old one.....

become a plumber, then you could put in a $30k kitchen with pocket change:grin:

 

[TOOL_5150]

My fridge is about 22 years old. My wife is all over me about getting a new one. But the newer nicer fridges won't fit in the existing spot, so a new fridge comes with a new kitchen. I figure about $30K.
Just fix the old one.....

Older fridges keep the beer colder than these newer energery conservitive ones. Keep the old one!


~Matt

 

[ohm]

According to 210.8(A) only the receps that serve the c'tops need GFId. If the recep is behind the fridge, then it doesn't need GFId.

Both ohmy and 480 sparky are correct.

During an Analysis of Changes 2008 seminar I asked who was going to pay for all the spoiled food when the freezer in the unfinished basement trips the GFCI I had to unstall.

I was told the new appliance product leakage currents are too low to trip a GFCI. Also, I suspect you should not try to connect anything to their loadside terminals, just to be sure.

So if you build a new house get rid of your old appliances if they're going in your unfinished basement.

 

[Ohmy]

Both ohmy and 480 sparky are correct.

Whoo hoo...give me a dollar.

 

[tom baker]

New fridges are far more energy efficient than a 12 year old one.
And a GFCI trips 4 to 6 and above mA. How do you know that the fridge leakage is not 15 mA 50 or higher, which can cause a fatal electric shock. The UL product standards limits the leakage to 0.5 mA for refridgerators.

 

[480sparky]

Whoo hoo...give me a dollar.

Split it with ya.... 50? each.

 

[Ohmy]

Split it with ya.... 50? each.

Deal......

 

[Jps1006]

The fridge is a built-in that will cost $2500+ to replace. I told the homeowner that something has obviously deteriorated (since it held fine for 12 years) and that the appliance guy would have to troubleshoot it. I'm not an appliance guy.

Well all they would say over the phone is that the manufacturer instructions say that it needs to be on its own circuit and it can't be GFI. (I don't think he looked up this particular model, he just claimed that off the top of his head). I pulled it off the GFI and told her to have the appliance guy out or call a different one. She seemed receptive and was also considering shopping for a new one.