fuse panel changeout

[rmw]

hello i have done some searching but found mostly old posts. i.e. pre 2008. the house i am looking to buy has a 125a fuse panel, no main disconnect, and everything is wired ungrounded (2 wire) with flex.

so my questions have to do with a panel change out. is it a code complient install if i replace it with modern c.b. panel same amperage and consider all the wiring an exsisting installation, no afci, grounds and the like. or do i add a sub panel with a main breaker leave the old separate and add anything new to the sub panel. if so do i install a main bonding jumper in the sub panel?

again the old panel is main lug only so using the same bar for neutral and ground is just parallel paths. or finally leave it alone and forget about adding new circuits. thanks in advance. if someone in mn has info that would be great.

 

[480sparky]

Do you have a disconnect somewhere before the panel?

 

[kbsparky]

.... the house i am looking to buy has a 125a fuse panel, no main disconnect...... so my questions have to do with a panel change out. is it a code complient install if i replace it with modern c.b. panel same amperage and consider all the wiring an exsisting installation, no afci, grounds and the like. or do i add a sub panel with a main breaker leave the old separate and add anything new to the sub panel. if so do i install a main bonding jumper in the sub panel?

again the old panel is main lug only so using the same bar for neutral and ground is just parallel paths. or finally leave it alone and forget about adding new circuits. thanks in advance. if someone in mn has info that would be great.

No main disconnect? If there is none outside at the meter box, you might be dealing with an old style split-bus panel, where the "disconnect" can be several pull-outs (up to 6). If this is the case, installing a new main breaker box would still be your "service". No sub-panel needed.

What is the status of your service drop and meter box? Care to upload a couple of pictures of your equipment?

.... everything is wired ungrounded (2 wire) with flex....

When you say "flex" are you referring to metal or armor flex, or flexible non-metallic sheathed cable? If it's metal flex, chances are you are dealing with type AC, or "BX" cable, which does have grounding provided by the metal outer sheath.

 

[Buck Parrish]

hello i have done some searching but found mostly old posts. i.e. pre 2008. the house i am looking to buy has a 125a fuse panel, no main disconnect, and everything is wired ungrounded (2 wire) with flex.

so my questions have to do with a panel change out. is it a code complient install if i replace it with modern c.b. panel same amperage and consider all the wiring an exsisting installation, no afci, grounds and the like. or do i add a sub panel with a main breaker leave the old separate and add anything new to the sub panel. if so do i install a main bonding jumper in the sub panel?

again the old panel is main lug only so using the same bar for neutral and ground is just parallel paths. or finally leave it alone and forget about adding new circuits. thanks in advance. if someone in mn has info that would be great.

Most juisdictions go by the National ELectrical Code. You can check with your local AHJ if your not sure of your local ordinances.
For instance one jurisdiction I work in will not allow an over head service if you upgrade the service.
Some areas close or in a city will not allow romex.
That said. The best way to deal with your situation is to tear out the old panel. Make splices under the house on the branch circuits. Either gfci protect them or fish through the crawl space a #12 ground wire to them.
Then pull new romex to a new 200 amp panel out side near the old meter's location.
Then change your two prong outlets and ground your new three prong tr outlets. Most juisdictions will not reqire afci protection unless you add more outlets to a circuit.
Most of the time it is almost as easy to pull new wires to the 240 volt circuits.
Their is at least a thousand different variations to do this. Here is one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4utI7Pyvsk

Just remember if it is the main or a small circuit every connection is as inportant as the other.
If you have not done this before I would recommend you ask some one who has to help you.

 

[rmw]

i deffinatly agree with you, buck, that every connection is as important as the next. the exsisting circuits are pulled threw flexible metal conduit. one hot, one neutral. so when i update receptacles adding a ground wouldn't be too difficult. not sure if i follow the crawl space comment. the exsisting panel is in the basement, so i would plan on physically swapping the panels in the same place.

 

[satcom]

Flex ? what are you calling flex ?

 

[infinity]

i definitely agree with you, buck, that every connection is as important as the next. the existing circuits are pulled threw flexible metal conduit. one hot, one neutral. so when i update receptacles adding a ground wouldn't be too difficult. not sure if i follow the crawl space comment. the existing panel is in the basement, so i would plan on physically swapping the panels in the same place.

Since the place is wired in FMC are you looking to rewire everything and pull in a new EGC to every location?

 

[GUNNING]

I think you are going to have to look at each item separately. Panel, meter/service, and outlets/wiring.
Here you would have to get meter and outside disconnect redone to re-due the panel.
The panel with new breakers would have to be arc fault on all 15 and 20 amp breakers. You would have to have smoke detectors installed too. That means separating out and finding the neutrals and reattaching the cables to the panel legally.
The outlets you treat as ungrounded outlets. This means replacing with GFCI and label with "no Equipment Ground". I'm pretty sure there are not any Tamper Resistant Non Grounded outlets out there yet.
Have you though about maybe rewiring the whole house?

The old adage of giving a moose a cookie and he will want a glass of milk.

I'm thinking its not flex but the OLD old original BX. No ground, heavey steel flex, no plastics available then, Just fibered asbestos coated wire or maybe natural tw rubber coated in a 1/4 inch trade sized fm jacket. yuk.

 

[satcom]

I think you are going to have to look at each item separately. Panel, meter/service, and outlets/wiring.
Here you would have to get meter and outside disconnect redone to re-due the panel.
The panel with new breakers would have to be arc fault on all 15 and 20 amp breakers. You would have to have smoke detectors installed too. That means separating out and finding the neutrals and reattaching the cables to the panel legally.
The outlets you treat as ungrounded outlets. This means replacing with GFCI and label with "no Equipment Ground". I'm pretty sure there are not any Tamper Resistant Non Grounded outlets out there yet.
Have you though about maybe rewiring the whole house?

The old adage of giving a moose a cookie and he will want a glass of milk.

I'm thinking its not flex but the OLD old original BX. No ground, heavey steel flex, no plastics available then, Just fibered asbestos coated wire or maybe natural tw rubber coated in a 1/4 inch trade sized fm jacket. yuk.

My thinking also.