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Is using the main panel as a junction box a code violation?

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  • BMANN06
    replied
    Originally posted by Eddy_Current View Post
    ??? What do you mean by pipe two together?

    You can can not have wires connected to a breaker in one panel leave, and then run through conduit to another panel, and then exit the second panel to the field.
    I'm not arguing that your are not right to the letter of the law, I have done this before (in ontario) on a few occasions and got my ESA sticker with no questions asked. I think if your were doing a new installation with a generator panel and had joints in a panel the inspector would be shaking his head and likely force the noted codes. However in an existing installation (ie retrofitting a generator panel) there isn't a whole lot that you can do without a joint somewhere. That being said, I haven't done rezzy work for awhile so the ESA may have firmed up their stance on this since.

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  • jaggedben
    replied
    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
    It's done with almost every residential generator-panel installation.
    Good to know I'm doing my solar-battery backup generator installs just like everyone else.

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  • Eddy_Current
    replied
    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
    It's done with almost every residential generator-panel installation.
    Not here

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  • LarryFine
    replied
    Originally posted by Eddy_Current View Post
    You can can not have wires connected to a breaker in one panel leave, and then run through conduit to another panel, and then exit the second panel to the field.
    It's done with almost every residential generator-panel installation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eddy_Current
    replied
    Originally posted by BMANN06 View Post
    Agreed, and if you pipe two panels together they are technically considered one panel.

    ??? What do you mean by pipe two together?

    You can can not have wires connected to a breaker in one panel leave, and then run through conduit to another panel, and then exit the second panel to the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • BMANN06
    replied
    Originally posted by Eddy_Current View Post
    Wires that are too short to reach the breakers can be extended as long as the space does not get filled more than 75%. What can not be done is using the panel as a junction for circuits that do not originate from that panel.
    Agreed, and if you pipe two panels together they are technically considered one panel.

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  • Eddy_Current
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    So the rule is more about not having circuits inside that don't originate inside or are supplying the panel, and less about splicing inside?
    Yes. There are two rules.

    First one says “ enclosures for overcurrent devices, controllers and externally operated switches shall not be used as a junction boxes, troughs or raceways for conductors feeding through to other apparatus”. ​12-3032(1)


    The other says. “The enclosure identified shall be permitted to be used as a junction box where wiring is being added to an enclosure forming part of an existing installation and the conductors, splices and taps do not fill the wiring space more than 75%”. 12-3032(2)(a)(i)

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  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by Eddy_Current View Post
    Wires that are too short to reach the breakers can be extended as long as the space does not get filled more than 75%. What can not be done is using the panel as a junction for circuits that do not originate from that panel.
    So the rule is more about not having circuits inside that don't originate inside or are supplying the panel, and less about splicing inside?

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  • Eddy_Current
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Does it really matter or impact safety if you moved the rats nest to a junction box right next to main panel for those conductors too short to reach their terminal.
    Wires that are too short to reach the breakers can be extended as long as the space does not get filled more than 75%. What can not be done is using the panel as a junction for circuits that do not originate from that panel.

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  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by DanS26 View Post
    IMO the Canadian code requirement does keep the rats nest of wire nuts out of the main distribution panel.
    Does it really matter or impact safety if you moved the rats nest to a junction box right next to main panel for those conductors too short to reach their terminal.

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  • DanS26
    replied
    IMO the Canadian code requirement does keep the rats nest of wire nuts out of the main distribution panel.

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  • BMANN06
    replied
    Originally posted by Eddy_Current View Post
    Making a splice in a panel is ok when adding to an existing installation as long as the wires and joints don’t take up more than 75% of the space.

    Using a panel as a junction box for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other apparatus, like conductors fed from another panel, is not allowed.

    12-3032 + 62-212
    Can't argue with that - although if I was the OP I would contact local inspector and get his input - if the originating panel is piped with a nipple over to the backup panel I don't think he'll have a problem with said joint. However I'm not an inspector.

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  • Eddy_Current
    replied
    Originally posted by BMANN06 View Post
    I know several years ago it was ok. I started out in residential and performed several service upgrades and fuse to cb swaps where branch circuits were too short. I extended them with a joint in the panel and the ESA inspector had no problem with this. This was in the mid 2000's, I don't really keep up with current residential codes anymore but its worth checking in with your inspector.

    my $0.02
    Making a splice in a panel is ok when adding to an existing installation as long as the wires and joints don’t take up more than 75% of the space.

    Using a panel as a junction box for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other apparatus, like conductors fed from another panel, is not allowed.

    12-3032 + 62-212

    Leave a comment:


  • BMANN06
    replied
    I know several years ago it was ok. I started out in residential and performed several service upgrades and fuse to cb swaps where branch circuits were too short. I extended them with a joint in the panel and the ESA inspector had no problem with this. This was in the mid 2000's, I don't really keep up with current residential codes anymore but its worth checking in with your inspector.

    my $0.02

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Since this is the Canadian Forum section what Eddy posted probably applies. I can't say anymore as I don't know Canadian code.

    If NEC is what applies, one needs to look at some terminology - a panelboard is the assembly with the bus and breakers, it gets installed into a cabinet. You can make splices inside a cabinet. Kind difficult to make splices inside a breaker or the bus assembly, which are what makes up the "panelboard".

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