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What good is a german journeyman certificate?

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    #16
    It all comes down to what the jurisdiction in question will accept for experience, especially experience that wasn't somehow documented within the jurisdiction.

    Some places you may have no choice but to start out at their apprentice level and as far as they are concerned with zero experience, which is too bad, nobody knows what motivation they have for being that way.

    Other places will consider experience elsewhere - they just want some kind of proof you actually say you did what you did. You still are likely to need to pass their license exam before they will issue you the license - or will reciprocate licenses from certain other jurisdictions.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Christoph View Post
      I already have a HIC license, so does the company I work for.
      Interesting.
      It's good to know someone from different sphere who may have different way of doing things. . .and probably even better.

      I had a 6hr layover at the Munich Airport last year and the section where passengers were waiting had the ceiling being worked on.
      I noticed that ninety nine percent of power and lighting wiring were done with non-metallic sheathed cables and color coded. This resembles those residential NMC cables here in US.

      We don't do NMC cables for commercial installs here in LA--let alone industrial installations.

      The only metallic conduits that I saw there were the stem that hold those pendant light fixtures.

      Makes me wonder if it is the general practice in all Germany. I had pictures also of underground wire runs in Vienna popping out of the ground in about 6 inch diameter plastic raceways.
      Seems like you use a lot of plastic.
      If the above is what you are familiar with ..it would be a radical departure from how it's done here.

      Having said that. . .it makes it even more important to acquire the actual field experience.

      I love those lighting rods on roof of houses in the countryside.

      BTW: There is book titled: American Electrician's Handbook. Electricians call it their bible. It has 2000 pages.
      I am Electrical Engineer and I found it useful during my contracting work.

      Comment


        #18
        Is there a nearby jurisdiction (state) that you could obtain a license through?

        I recently helped an old employee get his from the state of Texas. He lives in Arizona and they do not license there. There was a testing center in Phoenix that could administer the Texas exam.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by myspark View Post


          Interesting.
          It's good to know someone from different sphere who may have different way of doing things. . .and probably even better.

          I had a 6hr layover at the Munich Airport last year and the section where passengers were waiting had the ceiling being worked on.
          I noticed that ninety nine percent of power and lighting wiring were done with non-metallic sheathed cables and color coded. This resembles those residential NMC cables here in US.

          We don't do NMC cables for commercial installs here in LA--let alone industrial installations.

          The only metallic conduits that I saw there were the stem that hold those pendant light fixtures.

          Makes me wonder if it is the general practice in all Germany. I had pictures also of underground wire runs in Vienna popping out of the ground in about 6 inch diameter plastic raceways.
          Seems like you use a lot of plastic.
          If the above is what you are familiar with ..it would be a radical departure from how it's done here.

          Having said that. . .it makes it even more important to acquire the actual field experience.

          I love those lighting rods on roof of houses in the countryside.

          BTW: There is book titled: American Electrician's Handbook. Electricians call it their bible. It has 2000 pages.
          I am Electrical Engineer and I found it useful during my contracting work.

          Should read:
          Lightning Rods

          Comment


            #20
            Update:

            I have had the electrical inspector on the phone today and he told me I should present my case plus documentation in front of the Electrical Board. He said if my apprenticeship in germany was equivalent to the one here and I have had an exam and such they will decide on requirements on obtaining the journeyman or master license.

            Ill let you guys know what happens, thanks for the good input so far.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by myspark View Post


              Interesting.
              It's good to know someone from different sphere who may have different way of doing things. . .and probably even better.

              I had a 6hr layover at the Munich Airport last year and the section where passengers were waiting had the ceiling being worked on.
              I noticed that ninety nine percent of power and lighting wiring were done with non-metallic sheathed cables and color coded. This resembles those residential NMC cables here in US.

              We don't do NMC cables for commercial installs here in LA--let alone industrial installations.

              The only metallic conduits that I saw there were the stem that hold those pendant light fixtures.

              Makes me wonder if it is the general practice in all Germany. I had pictures also of underground wire runs in Vienna popping out of the ground in about 6 inch diameter plastic raceways.
              Seems like you use a lot of plastic.
              If the above is what you are familiar with ..it would be a radical departure from how it's done here.

              Having said that. . .it makes it even more important to acquire the actual field experience.

              I love those lighting rods on roof of houses in the countryside.

              BTW: There is book titled: American Electrician's Handbook. Electricians call it their bible. It has 2000 pages.
              I am Electrical Engineer and I found it useful during my contracting work.


              I obtained the HIC license for actual home improvement work, a business i tried to start with eco friendly materials such as sheep wool insulation, cork flooring and organic paint.

              As far as the germans and electrical work go, plastic is kind of an obvious choice since it is a non conductor and also it is almost 2020 so plastic has superseded in its mechanical properties for electrical components as far as I am concerned.

              Just for interest since I am new: is there a show and tell type of section here and if so any interest in some german electrical stuff with pics and explanations?

              Comment


                #22
                You could post in the Campfire folder. Title accordingly.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by myspark View Post


                  Interesting.
                  It's good to know someone from different sphere who may have different way of doing things. . .and probably even better.

                  I had a 6hr layover at the Munich Airport last year and the section where passengers were waiting had the ceiling being worked on.
                  I noticed that ninety nine percent of power and lighting wiring were done with non-metallic sheathed cables and color coded. This resembles those residential NMC cables here in US.

                  We don't do NMC cables for commercial installs here in LA--let alone industrial installations.


                  The only metallic conduits that I saw there were the stem that hold those pendant light fixtures.

                  Makes me wonder if it is the general practice in all Germany. I had pictures also of underground wire runs in Vienna popping out of the ground in about 6 inch diameter plastic raceways.
                  Seems like you use a lot of plastic.
                  If the above is what you are familiar with ..it would be a radical departure from how it's done here.

                  Having said that. . .it makes it even more important to acquire the actual field experience.

                  I love those lighting rods on roof of houses in the countryside.



                  BTW: There is book titled: American Electrician's Handbook. Electricians call it their bible. It has 2000 pages.
                  I am Electrical Engineer and I found it useful during my contracting work.
                  I don't know what those cables used in other countries are, but if we used them here I don't think they would necessarily be covered by same code section as NM cable, I think there is enough difference they could have different permissions for use. I don't know what the smoke producing characteristics of those foreign cables is in comparison to our NM cable either.

                  They don't employ the same protection schemes as we do either which could also change why they allow some of the things they do.
                  I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by kwired View Post

                    They don't employ the same protection schemes as we do either which could also change why they allow some of the things they do.
                    Do you mean they are not doing their electrical work safely enough as we do here?

                    They may use a lot of plastic but I haven't seen Germans dying because they didn't use NEC or metal conduits..

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by myspark View Post
                      Do you mean they are not doing their electrical work safely enough as we do here?
                      May be : they permit 30 mA GFCI whereas 6 mA GFCI only in US.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by kwired View Post
                        I don't know what those cables used in other countries are, but if we used them here I don't think they would necessarily be covered by same code section as NM cable, I think there is enough difference they could have different permissions for use. I don't know what the smoke producing characteristics of those foreign cables is in comparison to our NM cable either.

                        They don't employ the same protection schemes as we do either which could also change why they allow some of the things they do.
                        Actually, only difference is the size of the conductors and color of the conductors... America uses white, black and bare, UK and most of the EU uses Blue, Brown and Bare or Blue Brown and Green/yellow... and if it is bare we have to sleeve it...or tape it...
                        Plus all metric... most coomon size is 2.5 but can use 1.5 as well, lol...
                        Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Sahib View Post
                          May be : they permit 30 mA GFCI whereas 6 mA GFCI only in US.
                          but, in actuality.. most circuits will trip at 15 to 18 mA... according to a study I read this week...
                          Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by myspark View Post
                            Do you mean they are not doing their electrical work safely enough as we do here?

                            They may use a lot of plastic but I haven't seen Germans dying because they didn't use NEC or metal conduits..
                            We are not given the choice to come up with work that could be equally safe as the NEC.

                            That would really get complicated. Every job would have to be certified by a least a PE.

                            So to make things simple we are required to meet at least the minimum standards set forth by the NEC.
                            The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              In Britain, all work you do you sign for, and send a copy in while leaving a copy with the homeowner or with whomever ordered the work. Have not seen a permit since around 2002, nor an inspector. But, now Regis require you to be totally licensed, listed, etc because you are the responsible person if anything happens such as a fire... no more diy is supposed to be allowed except for changing something like an outlet or a bulb... yet...
                              at same time all connections are required to be torqued to correct specs, all repairs or replacements supposed to be tested, including insulation tests, and correct forms filled out.
                              But, a D I Yer usually has no knowledge of how to check for continuity, much less check resistance, etc...

                              what used tolet me work, before a few wording changes, was the Competent Person provision... now I need to get a part P certificate as Competent Person no longer allowed free hand..lol..
                              Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by growler View Post
                                We are not given the choice to come up with work that could be equally safe as the NEC.

                                That would really get complicated. Every job would have to be certified by a least a PE.

                                So to make things simple we are required to meet at least the minimum standards set forth by the NEC.

                                Your first statement contradicts with your last statement.

                                Your last statement is a no-brainer. NEC is the minimum standard. Everybody knows that.

                                What would preclude your choice of doing your work if you exceed the minimum requirement?

                                If you use say #12 AWG for a 15A circuit which is usually provided with #14 AWG (barring voltage drop consideration) why would your choice be hindered and prevent you from making that decision simply because that's what you have read in the NEC book.

                                German electricians and most members of EU go by the DIN/VDE European Code which is equivalent or even exceeding minimum standards set by NEC.

                                Comment

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