New Campground Electrical

[gsallor]

I am Looking to Install Electrical to some new sites at a campground, I've done many repairs to existing wiring but never the design of a new install. With the help of my supplier this is what they came up with, and I want another opinion on if this is adequate, basically its 24 sites with 50/30/20 pedestals. What they came up with is 3 200 amp circuits with 8 sites on each circuit with a 400 amp main. any help or recommendations would be much appreciated.

 

[wbdvt]

Being an RV'r and seeing some of the rigs that are now coming into the campsites, my gut tells me that is too small. If you look at the larger rigs, that have 50A services, they usually have 2 air conditioners, residential refrigerator, electric fireplace, 2 or 3 tvs, washer/dryer, etc. and if you get 8 of these on one 200A circuit, I think there would be problems. 80% of 50A x 8 is 360A. I may looking at it wrong but that is my opinion.

 

[gsallor]

That's what has me concerned, this is coming from a supplier that deals in mostly rv and mobile home parks but just seems a little undersized to me.

 

[ptonsparky]

I would be inclined to say bigger is better in this case. Not from experience, but fron the size of the campers we now see in those parks.

 

[packersparky]

12 kVA per site, with a 55% demand factor. I come up with 220 amps for 8 sites. That's assuming 120/240v

 

[gsallor]

12 kVA per site, with a 55% demand factor. I come up with 220 amps for 8 sites. That's assuming 120/240v

yes that is correct 120/240V. How old is this demand factor chart? Is it enough for new RV's? But all this also assumes all 8 sites will have 50A RV's Some will only be 30A.
So Much to think about, anyone else have any input/advise on this?

Thanks to all so far for your input, given me lots to think about

 

[packersparky]

yes that is correct 120/240V. How old is this demand factor chart? Is it enough for new RV's? But all this also assumes all 8 sites will have 50A RV's Some will only be 30A.
So Much to think about, anyone else have any input/advise on this?

Thanks to all so far for your input, given me lots to think about

The demand factor chart is from the 2017 NEC. The kVA per site was in increased in the 2017 from 9.6kVA per site to 12kVA per site for sites with 50 amp receptacles.

You would have to know exactly how many sites are getting 20,30, and 50 amp receptacles before you can do a load calc.

 

[gsallor]

The demand factor chart is from the 2017 NEC. The kVA per site was in increased in the 2017 from 9.6kVA per site to 12kVA per site for sites with 50 amp receptacles.

You would have to know exactly how many sites are getting 20,30, and 50 amp receptacles before you can do a load calc.

Its 24 total sites with 50/30/20. What was recommended by the supplier was 400A main an 3 200A circuits with 8 each pedistals. When I calculated earlier per the NEC Chart I came out to 220A for the 8 sites each (55% demand) And I think it was like 410A for the main for all 24 sites with I think 43% demand. Is that adequate even being slightly over?

 

[packersparky]

Its 24 total sites with 50/30/20. What was recommended by the supplier was 400A main an 3 200A circuits with 8 each pedistals. When I calculated earlier per the NEC Chart I came out to 220A for the 8 sites each (55% demand) And I think it was like 410A for the main for all 24 sites with I think 43% demand. Is that adequate even being slightly over?

I come up with 516 amps for the feeder/service for all 24 sites.

 

[gsallor]

Ok I come up with two different numbers depending how you calculate it

Mike holts Formula

24 sites @50A = 230,400VA (50A = 9600VA X 24) Demand Factor 43%
230,400VA X .43 = 99,072VA / 1000= 99.072KVA (net computed demand load)
99.072KVA = 412.5A

Second Formula

24 sites @ 50amps =12KVA x 24 = 288KVA
288KVA x .43 = 123.84KVA
123.84KVA = 512.5A

Which is right?

 

[Cow]

I would quote a 600 amp and not lose any sleep.

 

[packersparky]

Ok I come up with two different numbers depending how you calculate it

Mike holts Formula

24 sites @50A = 230,400VA (50A = 9600VA X 24) Demand Factor 43%
230,400VA X .43 = 99,072VA / 1000= 99.072KVA (net computed demand load)
99.072KVA = 412.5A

Second Formula

24 sites @ 50amps =12KVA x 24 = 288KVA
288KVA x .43 = 123.84KVA
123.84KVA = 512.5A

Which is right?

It depends on which NEC you have to follow. 9.6 kVA per site if you are under the 2014 and 12kVA if you are under the 2017.

 

[gsallor]

It depends on which NEC you have to follow. 9.6 kVA per site if you are under the 2014 and 12kVA if you are under the 2017.

that makes more sence thanks for your inputting

 

[mopowr steve]

My 2 cents, since I’ve put in a couple.

I wouldn’t sweat it if it was a regular campground as not every owner is at there site on any given day.

But if this is a campground used for special events (ie. Fairs, Racetracks, etc) these camping events will see almost 100% of the owners using their campers. So take some consideration. The demand factors are a little low. (About 15% from my experience with one of our campgrounds installed 15 years ago.

Campground expansion I'm working on now alows 6 of the same combination you’re talking about on a 200A Breaker. But as you’ve said many will still only be using the 30A (3600va) That should give us a long time before we see all campers using the 50A (12,000va) in our installs now. By then the equipment will probably need replaced anyway.

 

[kwired]

My 2 cents, since I’ve put in a couple.

I wouldn’t sweat it if it was a regular campground as not every owner is at there site on any given day.

But if this is a campground used for special events (ie. Fairs, Racetracks, etc) these camping events will see almost 100% of the owners using their campers. So take some consideration. The demand factors are a little low. (About 15% from my experience with one of our campgrounds installed 15 years ago.

Campground expansion I'm working on now alows 6 of the same combination you’re talking about on a 200A Breaker. But as you’ve said many will still only be using the 30A (3600va) That should give us a long time before we see all campers using the 50A (12,000va) in our installs now. By then the equipment will probably need replaced anyway.

Where it is at does impact things to some extent.

Public campgrounds will see a large variety of units, a mix of 50 and 30 amp units plugged in. They likely are full on Memorial Day , July 4, and Labor day, and during any local celebrations, and down south maybe even a few other times between Oct - April.

Private campgrounds may have less variety in some cases. Fairs, racetracks, and similar places may actually see more higher end units that utilize a 50 amp supply than a general public campground does.