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    Table 220.88

    (I search the previous entry and this topic was closed. I have a question and opening a new one).

    I took 4 different kVA value and implemented the Optional method for Table 220.88.
    Attached is the results.

    Why Not All Electric Restaurant always have more kVA rating (therefore bigger service conductor size and OCPD) than All Electric Restaurant?
    What I Click image for larger version

Name:	Table 220.88.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	106.3 KB
ID:	2388317am missing here?
    Attached Files

    #2
    no one has any idea?
    Was I the only one who is thinking south?

    Comment


      #3
      helloooo.

      Comment


        #4
        It's Saturday not a lot of members on here and probably many don't want to do a calculation. I am getting ready to go out but I will look at it latter
        They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
        She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
        I can't help it if I'm lucky

        Comment


          #5
          I took a quick look and I have no idea why all electric gets the demand factor especially in a restaurant.
          They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
          She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
          I can't help it if I'm lucky

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
            I took a quick look and I have no idea why all electric gets the demand factor especially in a restaurant.
            That is what I am saying!!! All electric restaurant will have a smaller service cable than not all electric restaurant. What I am missing???

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by de2 View Post
              That is what I am saying!!! All electric restaurant will have a smaller service cable than not all electric restaurant. What I am missing???
              An all electric restaurant would mean more electrical equipment that has intermittent use or thermostatic control. More electrical equipment with intermittent use or thermostatic control means a larger demand factor.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by david luchini View Post
                An all electric restaurant would mean more electrical equipment that has intermittent use or thermostatic control. More electrical equipment with intermittent use or thermostatic control means a larger demand factor.
                I see your point but I am not buying this section of the NEC. Cant digest it well.
                I think this should be deleted from the book.

                Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by de2 View Post
                  I see your point but I am not buying this section of the NEC. Cant digest it well.
                  I think this should be deleted from the book.

                  Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
                  Write a proposal... or just wire it without the demand factor. A lot of thought goes into these demand factors and they have been there for many years so my guess is that it works.
                  They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                  She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                  I can't help it if I'm lucky

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                    Write a proposal... or just wire it without the demand factor. A lot of thought goes into these demand factors and they have been there for many years so my guess is that it works.
                    This is also true. I agree.

                    NEC also say code book is just to basis design,minimun requirements, you can alway go further than what is the NEC mininum requirements are.

                    Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by de2 View Post
                      This is also true. I agree.

                      NEC also say code book is just to basis design,minimun requirements, you can alway go further than what is the NEC mininum requirements are.

                      Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
                      Of course, no one said you have to use the calculated load. That is just a minimum. I believe many of us on this forum tend to overdo our installations but we discuss what is code. As years go by it will usually reveal what doesn't work out hence the rewording of the NEC every 3 years. Calculations, however, have been pretty stable for some time.
                      They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                      She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                      I can't help it if I'm lucky

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by de2 View Post
                        That is what I am saying!!! All electric restaurant will have a smaller service cable than not all electric restaurant. What I am missing???

                        No. An all electric restaurant will require a larger service. Yes it may get more of a demand factor. You aren't really thinking about it correctly by just picking a kva value and treating them like the same thing.
                        Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

                        "You can't generalize"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by electrofelon View Post
                          No. An all electric restaurant will require a larger service. Yes it may get more of a demand factor. You aren't really thinking about it correctly by just picking a kva value and treating them like the same thing.
                          Wait a minute, on my posted calculation all electric restaurant kva is smaller than not all electric restaurant kva. Therefore smaller kva / voltage gives smaller Amp, this gives smaller feeder , service cable.

                          Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by de2 View Post
                            Wait a minute, on my posted calculation all electric restaurant kva is smaller than not all electric restaurant kva. Therefore smaller kva / voltage gives smaller Amp, this gives smaller feeder , service cable.

                            Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk
                            Take your 320kVA not-all-electric restaurant, and convert it to an all-electric restaurant. You will have to add all of the kva for the ranges, ovens, fryers, steam kettles, etc before you apply the all-electric demand factor.

                            You are not comparing equal restaurants.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by david luchini View Post
                              Take your 320kVA not-all-electric restaurant, and convert it to an all-electric restaurant. You will have to add all of the kva for the ranges, ovens, fryers, steam kettles, etc before you apply the all-electric demand factor.

                              You are not comparing equal restaurants.
                              I dont think you are right.

                              320kVA is calculated load, this means it includes what ever in the restaurant of the subject.(all electric restaurant, or not all electric restaurant)

                              So my understanding is;

                              320kva calculated load for All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 172kVA.
                              320kva calculated load for Not-All Electric Restaurant Service or Feeder will be calculated based on 260kVA.

                              320kVA is already calculated load, means it includes what ever electrical equipments in the facility.

                              Comment

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