Even still more generator questions

[LarryFine]

I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?

2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?

3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?

4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?

 

[LarryFine]

Bump. Over 100 views?!

Anyone? Bueller? Frye?

 

[b1miller]

Generac Clone

Generac Clone

Head on over to the Ziller Electric web forum. They are very up on Generac and Generac clones.

 

[LarryFine]

They are, but the brand isn't germane to my questions.

 

[shortcircuit2]

1. Doesn't Generac require copper conductors?
2. SE can't be used in the ground.
3. Absolutely not. TH wire is a 725 wiring method.
4. Is the genny disco within sight of the building?

 

[romex jockey]

I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?

I'd say ser wins....

2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?

connected, stripped of it's sheath ......unless it's a 110.3B ....about the size of a quarter

3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?

I don't believe so....

4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?

does the ATS have OCPD...?

~RJ~

 

[Little Bill]

I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?

As far as I know, Al is fine

2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?

Control wires are supposed to be in separate conduit
#1 SER is about 1" diameter, adj accordingly for #2

3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?

20AWG twisted pair shielded cable

4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?
Not clear on your setup

I'm currently installing a Kohler, and my answers (in red above) reflect that.
I'm fairly certain Generac has some of the same rules with maybe the exception of needing shielded twisted pair.

 

[LarryFine]

1. Doesn't Generac require copper conductors?
2. SE can't be used in the ground.
3. Absolutely not. TH wire is a 725 wiring method.
4. Is the genny disco within sight of the building?

1. Cu or al are permitted.
2. This is just for a few inches under the ATS, about 25' in the crawlspace, and a loop from the wall to the back of the generator; no in-ground.
3. I'm looking for a cable alternative to individual wires, so I can run it in the crawlspace unenclosed.
4. It's under the top cover of the genny.

This is a Honeywell genny and ATS duo, 100% identical to the Generac 20kw air-cooled unit and 200a SE ATS we're all familiar with, other than paint color. I have already installed the ATS and restored power.

There was an exterior 200a disco, which I removed and replaced with the ATS. The existing 4-0 SER to the panel enters the crawlspace under the ATS just as it did under the disco; there's just less SER exposed now.

(I love adding ATSs to services that already have exterior main discos!)

I'm starting to lean toward running the #2 SER feeder the same way, in no raceway, and run just a 1/2" LNFC (or is it LFNC?) for the six control wires. The control wires may be run in the same raceway if I wish.

We're only installing the feeder and control wiring now, and the genny will be set and plumbed for gas.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm fairly certain Generac has some of the same rules with maybe the exception of needing shielded twisted pair.

Generac removed the separate-conduit requirement years ago, as long as appropriately-voltage-rated wire is used. And they only need six individual wires for the control, no twisted pairs or shielding.

 

[romex jockey]

Generac removed the separate-conduit requirement years ago, as long as appropriately-voltage-rated wire is used. And they only need six individual wires for the control, no twisted pairs or shielding.

Which i suppose is why the last few i installed had no mention of isolating control circuitry ....i'm still not sold on why it's done? :?

~RJ~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Larry, here is Southwires chart for SER.. scroll down on the pdf

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...duct-specifications/haa/h6c/8854083371038.pdf

 

[ceb58]

Which i suppose is why the last few i installed had no mention of isolating control circuitry ....i'm still not sold on why it's done? :?

~RJ~

The Honeywell is a Generac with a different paint job. The control wire can be THWN # 14 N1 N2 carry 120vac for the utility sensing. T1 is carrying 120vac for the charger ( picks up neutral in generator ) and 192 & 0 sends 12vdc back to the ATS for switching.

 

[tank728]

Perhaps TC-ER can do be used for the control

 

[romex jockey]

The Honeywell is a Generac with a different paint job. The control wire can be THWN # 14 N1 N2 carry 120vac for the utility sensing. T1 is carrying 120vac for the charger ( picks up neutral in generator ) and 192 & 0 sends 12vdc back to the ATS for switching.

well i'm used to that ceb, URD & THWN for UG, SER & UF if not ~RJ~

 

[LarryFine]

Well, we ran them yesterday. 2-2-2-4 al SER for the feeder and 1/2" LNFC for the six #18 wires.

I will need to sleeve the generator end of the SER. I'm thinking an LB and a larger size of LNFC.

 

[shortcircuit2]

IMO...the T1 wire should run with the feeder because the neutral for the battery charger is with the feeder...300.3(B)

 

[LarryFine]

IMO...the T1 wire should run with the feeder because the neutral for the battery charger is with the feeder...300.3(B)

That may no longer be the case, as there are six control wires: black, red, white, blue, and two yellows.

In any case, it's in and wired, and I'm not changing it.

Added: Okay, I see that the blue supplies the charger, but the white is a control wire, so the feeder neutral must do double-duty.

 

[shortcircuit2]

Generac has the "all in one" cable that is code compliant and preferred by most installers. It is approved for direct burial and has correct color coding for the system interconnection between transfer and generator.

 

[GentekPower]

The white wire in the control cable is for the 23 wire which is grounded (-12V) in the event that the unit tells the transfer switch to move to the standby (generator) position and has nothing to do with grounding the 120V T1 to the charger. The charger gets its neutral from the main neutral in the feeder to the transfer switch.

I run a large Generator specific help forum (not just Generac) and don't get on here too often anymore. If you want more help, feel free to post there. https://gentekpower.com/forums

 

[GentekPower]

Generac has the "all in one" cable that is code compliant and preferred by most installers. It is approved for direct burial and has correct color coding for the system interconnection between transfer and generator.

The cable you're referring to is ONLY code compliant in areas that have adopted the 2017 NEC. If they haven't, it's required to be installed in a conduit the entire length. The cable has a TC-ER-JP rating, however TC isn't allowed through homes except with a new exception in the 2017 NEC for generators and other appliances needing power and controls in 1 cable (like mini split systems).

See article 336