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    Even still more generator questions

    I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

    1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?

    2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?

    3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?

    4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

    #2
    Bump. Over 100 views?!

    Anyone? Bueller? Frye?
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

    Comment


      #3
      Generac Clone

      Head on over to the Ziller Electric web forum. They are very up on Generac and Generac clones.

      Comment


        #4
        They are, but the brand isn't germane to my questions.
        Master Electrician
        Electrical Contractor
        Richmond, VA

        Comment


          #5
          1. Doesn't Generac require copper conductors?
          2. SE can't be used in the ground.
          3. Absolutely not. TH wire is a 725 wiring method.
          4. Is the genny disco within sight of the building?

          Comment


            #6
            [QUOTE=LarryFine;1994505][QUOTE]I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

            1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?
            I'd say ser wins....

            2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?
            connected, stripped of it's sheath ......unless it's a 110.3B ....about the size of a quarter

            3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?
            I don't believe so....

            4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?
            does the ATS have OCPD...?

            ~RJ~
            Last edited by romex jockey; 05-07-19, 09:02 PM. Reason: lost my glasses again....

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
              I'm installing a 20kw genny (Generac clone). I believe the output breaker is 80 amps. There will be 25 ft. of feeder in the crawlspace, the loop behind the genny, and a few inches outside under and into the ATS.

              1. Is there any reason to not use #2 al SER? What other options are as economical?

              As far as I know, Al is fine

              2. Can SER be run through LNFC? With control conductors? What diameter is the SER?

              Control wires are supposed to be in separate conduit
              #1 SER is about 1" diameter, adj accordingly for #2


              3. Thermostat cable is rated at 150v. Would that be suitable for the control wiring?

              20AWG twisted pair shielded cable

              4. Is a disco needed where the feeder enters the crawlspace to run to the outside ATS?
              Not clear on your setup


              I'm currently installing a Kohler, and my answers (in red above) reflect that.
              I'm fairly certain Generac has some of the same rules with maybe the exception of needing shielded twisted pair.
              If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by shortcircuit2 View Post
                1. Doesn't Generac require copper conductors?
                2. SE can't be used in the ground.
                3. Absolutely not. TH wire is a 725 wiring method.
                4. Is the genny disco within sight of the building?
                1. Cu or al are permitted.
                2. This is just for a few inches under the ATS, about 25' in the crawlspace, and a loop from the wall to the back of the generator; no in-ground.
                3. I'm looking for a cable alternative to individual wires, so I can run it in the crawlspace unenclosed.
                4. It's under the top cover of the genny.

                This is a Honeywell genny and ATS duo, 100% identical to the Generac 20kw air-cooled unit and 200a SE ATS we're all familiar with, other than paint color. I have already installed the ATS and restored power.

                There was an exterior 200a disco, which I removed and replaced with the ATS. The existing 4-0 SER to the panel enters the crawlspace under the ATS just as it did under the disco; there's just less SER exposed now.

                (I love adding ATSs to services that already have exterior main discos!)

                I'm starting to lean toward running the #2 SER feeder the same way, in no raceway, and run just a 1/2" LNFC (or is it LFNC?) for the six control wires. The control wires may be run in the same raceway if I wish.

                We're only installing the feeder and control wiring now, and the genny will be set and plumbed for gas.
                Master Electrician
                Electrical Contractor
                Richmond, VA

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Little Bill View Post
                  I'm fairly certain Generac has some of the same rules with maybe the exception of needing shielded twisted pair.
                  Generac removed the separate-conduit requirement years ago, as long as appropriately-voltage-rated wire is used. And they only need six individual wires for the control, no twisted pairs or shielding.
                  Master Electrician
                  Electrical Contractor
                  Richmond, VA

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
                    Generac removed the separate-conduit requirement years ago, as long as appropriately-voltage-rated wire is used. And they only need six individual wires for the control, no twisted pairs or shielding.
                    Which i suppose is why the last few i installed had no mention of isolating control circuitry ....i'm still not sold on why it's done?

                    ~RJ~

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Larry, here is Southwires chart for SER.. scroll down on the pdf

                      https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/s...4083371038.pdf
                      They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                      She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                      I can't help it if I'm lucky

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by romex jockey View Post
                        Which i suppose is why the last few i installed had no mention of isolating control circuitry ....i'm still not sold on why it's done?

                        ~RJ~
                        The Honeywell is a Generac with a different paint job. The control wire can be THWN # 14 N1 N2 carry 120vac for the utility sensing. T1 is carrying 120vac for the charger ( picks up neutral in generator ) and 192 & 0 sends 12vdc back to the ATS for switching.
                        Organized people are people that are just too lazy to look for their stuff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Perhaps TC-ER can do be used for the control

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ceb58 View Post
                            The Honeywell is a Generac with a different paint job. The control wire can be THWN # 14 N1 N2 carry 120vac for the utility sensing. T1 is carrying 120vac for the charger ( picks up neutral in generator ) and 192 & 0 sends 12vdc back to the ATS for switching.
                            well i'm used to that ceb, URD & THWN for UG, SER & UF if not ~RJ~

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Well, we ran them yesterday. 2-2-2-4 al SER for the feeder and 1/2" LNFC for the six #18 wires.

                              I will need to sleeve the generator end of the SER. I'm thinking an LB and a larger size of LNFC.
                              Master Electrician
                              Electrical Contractor
                              Richmond, VA

                              Comment

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