Motor contactor drop out

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paulengr

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Can you parallel list the maintenance for both fused gear and MCCBs?

I think right off the top there is no generic "how to maintain a disconnect" other than general maintenance standards like NFPA 70B or NETA MTS. Breakers are a different story. EVERY MCCB manufacturer refers you to NEMA AB-4 as the reference standard for MCCB maintenance.

Going by NEMA AB-4, it is very, very simple. If the breaker trips, do a 10 second visual inspection. NEMA AB-4 is completely free to read and download (PDF) so I recommend doing it. They have some very nice color pictures explaining what to look for that most maintenance people can easily follow. If you see anything bad, replace the breaker. It's that simple. Next once a year, exercise it (open and close it 2 or 3 times) and again, do the visual inspection. Next AB-4 talks about doing breaker testing but they don't exactly tell you how to do that or how often, only that it is a good idea to do it.

Switching to disconnects, if the contact tips are visible (disconnects only) it is a fairly easy visual inspection to check for excessive contact tip wear. If the contact tip is worn down to the point where there isn't a "shoulder" anymore to where it is going to start eating into the copper bus supporting it, the tip is worn out and needs replacing. On vacuum interrupters you close the interrupter then there is a way to measure the plunger on the bottle to determine how much contact tip is left. When it wears down too far, replace it. No way to do this on MCCB's because you can't see inside. They need to take a note from the vacuum interrupter market.

As an example of what to look for on disconnects, frequently on medium voltage equipment is that with a lot of it you can get condensation on the top of the enclosure that eventually turns into bubbled up paint and rust. The rust drips with condensation in outdoor enclosures. Usually according to Murphy's Law and depending on who designed it, it always lands on the center insulator and eventually causes a flash over and destroys the disconnect. This tends not to be a problem with Federal Pacific Autojets or the Joslyn-Clark style design but tends to be a common failure mode in a lot of others. So even that little rust on the enclosure that you may think is OK is a good idea to clean up and repaint, especially at 4160 and above where cleanliness is key to reliability.

Then some disconnects have a requirement to lubricate the bearings or some sliding surfaces. This varies from one manufacturer to another. It is in the 1 or 2 paragraphs in the instructions if there is anything at all. Since it seems like you are focussed more on the 600 V class 30-600 A disconnects, there isn't anything at all. These days they have gotten so cheap that usually you don't even replace contact tips...you replace it all. I've also run into some AB disconnects in MCC that were way out of alignment and had to be adjusted. This happens as cabinetry and equipment settles over time. Again it's mostly visual inspections.

So getting into testing proper, this is approximately how we do it and how most customer standards ask for it. First do insulation resistance on everything to check for failed insulation. Looking for usually 100 Megaohms or more. With vacuum interrupters it is done slightly differently if they want it done. Most of the instructions call for using a hi pot essentially as a high voltage megger that is supposed to detect failed vacuum in a bottle. The trouble is that it ALWAYS passes or you'd know the bottle is failed anyways. There is a tester on the market that actually tests the vacuum in place. It is fairly expensive but very nice because it also tells you how much life is left on your bottle.

Next step is to close the contacts and measure resistance of the contacts using a micro-ohm meter. What you are looking for is that they are generally under 1 milliohm and that the readings are within 50% of the average. There are some more refined values to use but generally speaking what we are looking for is either very severe contact damage (pitting) or more likely spring pressure not holding the contact tips together sufficiently.

On breakers the next step is to test the trip unit. Essentially what we are doing is applying a current to the breaker and simulating trip conditions, then timing how long it takes for the breaker contacts to actually open. We are not testing a new breaker design, just testing each trip function to verify that it is working properly. There are two ways of doing this, primary and secondary injection. In primary injection we have a large test set. They usually weigh several hundred pounds. We apply a voltage of around 1 to 10 V but current that is thousands of amps. The current that we apply usually tests 2 points on the thermal curve and a point below and above the instantaneous curve. We are comparing the test results to the published trip curves for the breaker itself. Any deviation from this indicates a breaker out of calibration. With secondary injection the breaker will have a little port on it some place where we can plug in a box that does the same kind of test except that instead of applying full current to it, we are using control circuit voltages and injecting test currents on the other side of the current sensor of the breaker. Instead of weighing hundreds of pounds and truly putting some stress on the breaker itself, the tester weighs maybe 10 pounds and fits in a backpack. But there is no standard for these. Each manufacturer has between 1 and maybe 5 different testers. They are all priced fairly high and not worth buying and maintaining unless you are dealing with a lot of the same breakers.

There are plenty of arguments on both sides about whether or not secondary injection testing is truly testing the breaker. I would have to agree that some testers perform a more realistic test than others. And you aren't quite testing "everything" but with breakers where you can see the current readings on a display, we can instantly see whether or not the CT's are working once the breaker is back in service anyways. In the case of draw out breakers where we can crank the entire breaker assembly out and we need to do that to service them anyways, primary injection makes a lot of sense. But in the case of bolted in breakers which is what MCCB's are in almost all cases, actually physically removing and reinstalling them for testing is very time consuming and entails risks of damage to the breaker or the fasteners, and takes a lot more time than draw out equipment. So in many cases secondary injection testing is good enough.

Another test, and this one does not need an outage to do, is infraref inspection and for medium voltage, corona testing. Infrared inspection is the easiest way to pick up on loose connections in equipment among other things. It is inexpensive especially compared to what the repair costs are if you ever have an arcing fault blow equipment apart. Corona inspection is the twin sister of infrared. While infrared picks up on problems with loose connections, corona testing looks for corona or minute almost invisible arcing called partial discharges that happen when insulation starts to fail. Corona testing only works above about 2000-3000 V though and it sounded like your focus is on 600 V or less, where corona testing does not work (not enough pressure).
 

paulengr

Senior Member
Can you parallel list the maintenance for both fused gear and MCCBs?

Finally, I don't recommend testing EVERY breaker. Think about your house...do you ever test 15 A and 20 A breakers in your distribution panel? Nope, me neither. I have had trouble with old ones but it's pretty easy to fix. But what if I told you that survey data collected by IEEE shows that for 800 A and larger frames the failure rate is 300% higher than for the smaller frames? And that's a true fact. See IEEE 493 (Gold Book). It is unrealistic to test "every" breaker. I can tell you for a fact that no site has enough money to test "everything". None of them do that. But most of them have never actually thought about what should and should not be tested either. This is my suggested criteria for what to test:
1. Test MCCB's that are 800 A frames and larger. For most plants this might only be a handful.
2. Test draw out gear. Unlike MCCB's in panelboards which are meant to be "maintenance free" and contain no user serviceable parts, draw out gear is just the opposite. Half the manual is dedicated to servicing it and it is designed with the assumption that it will be routinely serviced. Not servicing it is a recipe for disaster.
3. Test ICCB's since it has some of the same problems as MCCB's (high failure rates on a larger frames). ICCB's fit somewhere between ANSI draw-out gear (with high service requirements) and MCCB's since it is not designed to be serviced but all of them are 800 A or larger frames so the pressure on the bearings is quite high leading to potential mechanical issues, and they are mechanically more complicated than MCCB's.
4. Test breakers that serve a life safety or other critical function where it needs to trip. For instance if a breaker is identified in an arc flash report, NFPA 70E states that if it is not maintained properly then the labels on the equipment could be wrong and arc flash could be much larger than what is on the labels. This means that this breaker and this breaker alone should be tested to meet that criteria. The downstream breakers might be important for other reasons but as far as arc flash is concerned, they don't matter.
5. Test breakers that serve a critical function where spurious tripping is an issue. These are breakers where they should not trip unless absolutely necessary. As an example a breaker that feeds the security system for a prison might be considered critical. In addition in this case since the breakers that feed those breakers can also trip spuriously, this has the same effect as this class of critical breakers so upstream breakers should also be tested.
6. Test breakers where failures have been occurring due to age or condition.
 

Russs57

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Paul, nice post. All stuff we used to do that we don't do anymore (and I can't understand why).

Can you point me towards some literature stating what is legally required?

In your experience, what percentage of customers require and/or are willing to pay for such testing on new installations?
 

mbrooke

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When talking about at least NEC and NESC, there is no definition issue. At lower voltages and currents and what I'm talking about here is what is going on inside of neon and fluorescent lamps, we can have controlled discharges. Let's just call those sparks. For safety and power distribution purposes they don't really matter. But as voltage and available short circuit current rise at some point we enter a condition where voltage stops going up or at least goes up very, very slowly but we can push almost unlimited current through the air. This is the power arc or just arc. That's what NFPA 70E and NESC are concerned about when it comes to equipment and personnel safety. NEC has nothing at all to do with it other than requiring arc flash stickers and AFCI's. If you want to play around at the low end where we have streaming, glow discharges, and all kinds of other strange effects, then I'd tend to agree but that's not where most of the standards are concerned.

If two conductors are close enough together and depending on other things like voltage, available fault current (system impedance), and air temperature, we form an arc through the air. This happens almost instantly. Once it does the core of the arc is a very thin (a few millimeters at most) column of air that is highly conductive plasma. The air is so hot that effectively all the electrons are blown off their nuclei and just kind of float around in a highly conductive cloud. The actual arc is very limited in size because plasma is very magnetic so it pulls back onto itself. There are physics calculations for how big it gets but this doesn't normally concern us at all. The arc is almost completely self sustaining. Once the current drops to zero, the arc extinguishes. The air starts to cool down. Then as voltage rises again (in an AC system) and exceeds a threshold generally around 100-200 V, the arc restrikes and goes again, over and over again if the arc is self-sustaining.

So the arc is not really continuous current. If we are working at control/residential voltages (100-250 V), it actually looks more like a square wave since most of the time the arc is extinguished. This makes it hard for the arc to stay ignited. And in terms of AC RMS current drawn, it is a lot smaller than it would be in the case of a dead short through a conductor (a bolted fault). On the other hand for over 1000 VAC the time that the arc stays extinguished is a very small part of the total arcing time so for all intents and purposes, it might as well be almost the same as a bolted fault. So for calculation purposes in the old IEEE 1584-2002 standard, we just set it equal to the bolted fault. In the current (2018) standard the calculation is a little more complex and a little more exact so the arcing current as a percentage of bolted fault current gradually increases.

These formulas are vastly better than the old ones which didn't have much in the way of scientific evidence for them. The current IEEE 1584-2018 standard is based on somewhere over 3,000 tests and the margin of error on the calculated result is around +/-15%. The old (2002) standard had quite a bit of data on error rates and details into how the calculations actually work. Among other things the experimental tests after grinding through all the math tended to have a "bimodal" distribution where the results were one of two numbers. The calculation procedure used a somewhat arbitrary way to fix this (run the calculation the normal way, then with the current calculated at 85% of the original value) but the new one gets rid of this extra fudge factor because the distribution is no longer bimodal. The new (2018) standard doesn't have quite as much detail but there is enough there to know that it is better than the 2002 numbers.

There really is no mystery at all when it comes to arcing faults. It's just that bolted faults and the associated calculations have been around almost since Ohm's Law and when physicists were still working out how it all works in the 19th century. Arcing current calculations have only been around for about 25 years because for practical cases we had to spend a lot of money on a lot of experiments to nail down all the details. But that work has been completed so now there should be very little mystery about it.

You do know anyone can actually argue the definition of arcing... and win...?


In no way am I knocking on what you said, bravo, but the as far as I'm concerned arcing is left up to interpretation as much as what constitutes objectionable current on GECs.

available fault current (system impedance)

In other words this is an issue at which the speed of a fault clears, not that it is incapable of clearing in the first place.

An issue (assuming one exists at 150 volts or less to ground) of RMS sparking/sputtering current and RMS bolted fault current can be mitigated in other ways...
 

jim dungar

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Did you see the 3,000 amp 208 volt services? What do you think of them?

What about them? I have designed many services of this size. My previous question was about using 1000A or greater feeders at <400V.

You may need to spend more time performing short circuit calculations and arc flash analysis on full/complex systems.

If you did not know it, Time Current Curves cannot show selective coordination below the X-Axis (0.01s on most curves). Selective coordination beyond 0.01s can only be determined by actual testing, which is why you need to use tools like fuse ratio tables which are manufacturer specific.

When evaluating coordination remember to also consider real life situations and trade offs. Does it make sense to have 100% protection against something that might never occur?
For example, given a 100A fuse protecting a 20A branch; would you calculate the fault current at the load side of the branch breaker, or after some amount of circuit conductor, say 10' of #12 feeding a receptacle or lighting ballast?
Bolted faults usually occur as a result of improper wiring, so they are often discovered as soon as the circuit is energized, and represent a fairly small percentage of all faults (likely <10%).
Arcing faults usually start as L-G faults and occur as a result of equipment failure or human intervention they easily make up more than 80% of faults.
 

mbrooke

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My previous question was about using 1000A or greater feeders at <400V.

Whats wrong in doing that? :D

You may need to spend more time performing short circuit calculations and arc flash analysis on full/complex systems.

If you did not know it, Time Current Curves cannot show selective coordination below the X-Axis (0.01s on most curves). Selective coordination beyond 0.01s can only be determined by actual testing, which is why you need to use tools like fuse ratio tables which are manufacturer specific.


Why not below 0.01 seconds? I see thats where the fuse curves typically end which to be honest has me mystified.

My understanding is that a 2:1 fuse ratio achieves 100% coordination up to the rated fuse body kaic.

When evaluating coordination remember to also consider real life situations and trade offs. Does it make sense to have 100% protection against something that might never occur?

Depends on the level of fall when dealing with a low probability high impact event.

For example, given a 100A fuse protecting a 20A branch; would you calculate the fault current at the load side of the branch breaker, or after some amount of circuit conductor, say 10' of #12 feeding a receptacle or lighting ballast?


Good point- typically if a fault is going to occur, it won't occur between the breaker and first job box.

Bolted faults usually occur as a result of improper wiring, so they are often discovered as soon as the circuit is energized, and represent a fairly small percentage of all faults (likely <10%).
Arcing faults usually start as L-G faults and occur as a result of equipment failure or human intervention they easily make up more than 80% of faults.


I wouldn't call the remaining 80% arc faults, not when dealing with 150 volts and under.
 

jim dungar

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Why not below 0.01 seconds? I see thats where the fuse curves typically end which to be honest has me mystified.
The fuse ratio is dependent upon the specific fuses being used and is manufacturer dependent. You cannot use fuse ratios based only on the type of fuse, like RK1.

My understanding is that a 2:1 fuse ratio achieves 100% coordination up to the rated fuse body kaic.
The AIC rating of a device really has nothing to do with its coordination.

I wouldn't call the remaining 80% arc faults, not when dealing with 150 volts and under.

Then you would be going against the industry consensus opinion. If 'air' is involved in the fault path, it is an arc.
 

mbrooke

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The fuse ratio is dependent upon the specific fuses being used and is manufacturer dependent. You cannot use fuse ratios based only on the type of fuse, like RK1.

RK1, low peak, by bussmann. In that case I can confidently bet on a 2:1 ratio. Still yet, a 2:1 will probably cover me even with a different manufacturer in the mix.


The AIC rating of a device really has nothing to do with its coordination.

Breakers are a lot more difficult to coordinate all the way up to their AIC. With most OCPDs, beyond a certain level of fault current, time current curves cross. The higher the available fault current the more likely they will cross and the harder it becomes to "stack" curves. If you don't have dials, forget about it.

Yes the drop in fault current greatly helps as you move away from the service- but with Class L fuses/ RK fuses you can place a 4000, 2000, 1000, 500, 250, 125, 60, 30, 15 all in series with each other feet apart with 180,000 amps of fault current. All should coordinate theory. Now try coordinating 9 breaker in series feet apart.

I know thats an unrealistic scenario but it shows what fuses are capable of.


Then you would be going against the industry consensus opinion. If 'air' is involved in the fault path, it is an arc.


The industry on its own has not reached a homogenized consensus.
 

jim dungar

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Breakers are a lot more difficult to coordinate all the way up to their AIC.
There is no need to coordinate up to a device's AIC. You only need to coordinate up to the amount of current that flows through the fault.
How could you connect those 9 devices in series and still have 180kA flowing through the 15A device? And yes, it would be unlikely for you to find a 15A breaker with a 180KAIC rating.


The industry on its own has not reached a homogenized consensus.
Could you provide at least one industry reference that does not consider current flowing through air to be an arc?

It appears you want nothing to do with circuit breakers and would prefer to only install fusible equipment, in which do it. Just don't be surprised at or complain about your lack of flexibility in product selection.
 

mbrooke

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There is no need to coordinate up to a device's AIC. You only need to coordinate up to the amount of current that flows through the fault.

Unless of course the service is pushing the AIC. In that case the main fuse and branch fuse must assume 180,000.


How could you connect those 9 devices in series and still have 180kA flowing through the 15A device?

You aren't reading what I'm writing- all 9 within feet of each other. To which I said not a likely scenario.

And yes, it would be unlikely for you to find a 15A breaker with a 180KAIC rating.

Try a 15 amp fuse :p



Could you provide at least one industry reference that does not consider current flowing through air to be an arc?

It appears you want nothing to do with circuit breakers and would prefer to only install fusible equipment, in which do it. Just don't be surprised at or complain about your lack of flexibility in product selection.


I want breakers on 15, 20 and 30 amp circuits. 125 amps is good, ideally up to 225 amps. Beyond that fuses are fine.
 

jim dungar

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Unless of course the service is pushing the AIC. In that case the main fuse and branch fuse must assume 180,000.

You aren't reading what I'm writing- all 9 within feet of each other. To which I said not a likely scenario.

Using typical NEC conductor selections (CU, THHN, 75C, magnetic conduit) and connecting these 9 devices in series with 9 ft of conductor, there would only be about 3.3kA available at the line side of the 15A device. This assumes the starting value is 180kA and no other fault contribution. The arcing fault current would be about 2KA using IEEE1584-2018. There were no protective devices assumed in this example, just conductor impedances.
 

mbrooke

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Using typical NEC conductor selections (CU, THHN, 75C, magnetic conduit) and connecting these 9 devices in series with 9 ft of conductor, there would only be about 3.3kA available at the line side of the 15A device. This assumes the starting value is 180kA and no other fault contribution. The arcing fault current would be about 2KA using IEEE1584-2018. There were no protective devices assumed in this example, just conductor impedances.

What size wire? What about the same comparison to aluminum MC or cable tray?
 

mbrooke

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https://www.stahl-engineering.com/do...stem-fires.pdf


ARCS

NFPA®921 2014 edition defines an (electric) arc as “A high temperature luminous electric discharge across a gap or through a medium such as charred insulation.”5 The text further explains that “temperatures within the arc are in the range of several thousand degrees, depending on circumstances, including current, voltage drop, and metal involved. For an arc to jump even the smallest gap in air spontaneously there must be a voltage difference of at least 350 volts.”6 The Ignition Handbook further defines it as a “continuous” 7 discharge between two electrodes. The word continuous is important in this definition and will be discussed later in terms of differentiating between arc and a spark. This minimum required voltage for an arc to form through air is known as Paschen’s Law.

Paschen’s Law describes the relationship between voltage and the formation of a sustained electric arc provided there is a sufficient current when bringing two electrodes closer together. In non-ionized air and at room temperature, this minimum voltage required for the formation of an arc, also referred to as the breakdown voltage, is calculated to be 340 volts for a gap measuring 0.007mm (0.00027 inches).8 340 volts DC is equivalent to 340 peak volts in an AC circuit.9 In AC circuits, voltages are generally expressed in terms of RMS voltages. RMS stands for “root mean square” and is simply a mathematical way of measuring a quantity that varies, such as an AC or voltage. RMS voltage is 0.707 times peak voltage for a sinusoidal wave.10 Therefore, a typical 240 volt AC system has a peak of 340 volts.

In describing Paschen’s Law above, we have been very careful to define it at room temperature and in non-ionized air. These two variables are important and it is possible to create an arc with 14 volts DC under the right circumstances, but it cannot occur spontaneously across an air gap.11 Situations where this can happen, such as a parting arc, will be discussed separately. From a practical standpoint, this means that when arc is involved in a 14 volt DC circuit it is most likely an effect of a fire and not the cause. “Although there is no doubt that arcing can start a fire, it is more often the result of the fire than the initiator of the fire.”1

Key is a charred path, in that without it 150 volts to ground is limited by Paschen's law. But it doesn't stop the NEC from throwing both underneath a bus.

You have to realize arcing is a word thrown around much like food during a school cafeteria food fight.
 

jim dungar

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Key is a charred path, in that without it 150 volts to ground is limited by Paschen's law. But it doesn't stop the NEC from throwing both underneath a bus.

You have to realize arcing is a word thrown around much like food during a school cafeteria food fight.

The reference you provided, Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, uses the phrase "across a gap" and goes on to describe situations involving current paths through air.
This agrees with my definition of an arc.

I thought you said there was no agreement.

By the way, Paschen's law only applies to non-ionized air as pointed out in your reference's last paragraph. It really applies to the amount of voltage required to initiate an arc across a 'gap'. Once the air becomes ionized, such as when a conductor fuses open or contacts are separated, other dynamics come into play.
 

mbrooke

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The reference you provided, Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations, uses the phrase "across a gap" and goes on to describe situations involving current paths through air.
This agrees with my definition of an arc.

I thought you said there was no agreement.

By the way, Paschen's law only applies to non-ionized air as pointed out in your reference's last paragraph. It really applies to the amount of voltage required to initiate an arc across a 'gap'. Once the air becomes ionized, such as when a conductor fuses open or contacts are separated, other dynamics come into play.

Yes, when ionization or carbonization is present. At 150 volts to ground, the air is not ionized for long and an arc can not by sustained.
 

jim dungar

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Yes, when ionization or carbonization is present. At 150 volts to ground, the air is not ionized for long and an arc can not by sustained.
That may be your opinion.
However, it is not the opinion of IEEE1584 which, in 2018 after extensive testing, revised their position to be a 208Y/120V arc can be sustained if the fault current is 2000A or greater.
 

mbrooke

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That may be your opinion.
However, it is not the opinion of IEEE1584 which, in 2018 after extensive testing, revised their position to be a 208Y/120V arc can be sustained if the fault current is 2000A or greater.

Of course, because the definition of arcing has changed to 'emission of light with volatizing between electrodes' (paraphrasing) aka garden variety short circuit.

On the other hand 60 years of utility practice has shown otherwise just about weekly.
 
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