Gould panels and switchboards

[malachi constant]

Was doing a facility audit yesterday for a high rise apartment and found all the distribution equipment was someone I'd never heard of before: Gould ITE, circa 1981.

I did a little research but didn't find much on it, outside of this thread on here: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php/98324-Whatever-happened-to-ITE

So what's an engineer to say about this equipment? Is it safe to say that new replacement parts are not available, but refurbished can be obtained? I cannot find any reports of equipment failure (such as with FPE) so no need to note it as a dangerous installation.

30 years old...that's what I have always considered to be life span of electrical equipment - always with the caveat that if you don't have any known issues with it, aren't doing any major remodeling, and haven't had trouble finding replacement parts, then feel free to keep the installation as-is for the time being.

Anyway, any thoughts on what to tell an Owner about 30 year old Gould ITE breakers is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[kwired]

Names change over years but as far as I know that is same product line as what is being made by Siemens today.

 

[malachi constant]

kwired: per jraef in the link posted above:
"Most of the switchgear that was built under the ITE / Gould name has been completely redesigned over the years so there is little compatibility now."

Your statement is at odds with the above. Jraef sounds pretty knowledgeable, but I am pretty ignorant when it comes to breaker compatibility so if you know something please share. Thanks!

 

[kwired]

I guess you would need to get information from Siemens. I know of no major issues with the Gould/ITE line unlike the issues that come up with some discontinued lines like FPE. If you have existing equipment that was installed properly and has been properly maintiained there should not be anything to be alarmed about. If you need to add more circuits to something existing I guess you need to find out if it is acceptable to install current made devices in the older panel. Most other lines it is acceptable to install new devices in old equipment even when the product line was taken over by another name.

Every product line has seen enough changes over the last 30 - 40 years that the line is not the same anymore.

 

[roger]

I agree with Kwired. I have not had any problems finding Siemens parts for Gould/ITE switchboards, panelboards, or load centers.

It's the same with C-H and Westinghouse

Roger

 

[Jraef]

kwired: per jraef in the link posted above:
"Most of the switchgear that was built under the ITE / Gould name has been completely redesigned over the years so there is little compatibility now."

Your statement is at odds with the above. Jraef sounds pretty knowledgeable, but I am pretty ignorant when it comes to breaker compatibility so if you know something please share. Thanks!

But notice I said "Switchgear", not load centers and panelboards.

Here's the scoop. The old ITE product lines that still exist today are the Siemens "EQ" panels and their kin, using the "QP/QT" series plug-in breakers and the "BL/BQ/QJ" type bolt-in and the Sentron line of larger MCCBs. Those have not changed in 50+ years and there are UL documents available from Siemens that will show AHJs that it is perfectly acceptable to use the new breakers in old compatible ITE and Goulds/ITE load centers and panelboards. The documents list the acceptable product series.

But under the "Goulds" name, there was also what was called the "Pushmatic" product line that was Bulldog before ITE bought them, before Goulds bought ITE, before Siemens bought Goulds/ITE. Siemens no longer supports that old Bulldog product line, they killed it some time after they bought ITE because there was too much baggage (product liability). So if your "Goulds" panels say "Goulds / ITE Pushmatic", you would not go to Siemens for replacements. There are Chinese suppliers that make retrofit Pushmatic breakers. You may find some push back from AHJs on retrofitting them however, because there have been issues and most are not UL listed. Some are ETL listed but apparently not specifically for use in the old Bulldog panels because the old Bulldog panels are no longer made (don't ask me how they get away with that).

 

[zog]

Yep, the ITE/Gould switchgear family tree is very different, these are my speciality.

 

[Jraef]

As pointed out in a PM, I mistakenly used the name "Goulds" where I should have said "Gould" (no s). They are different companies, not related. Goulds is the Pump mfr now owned by ITT, Gould Inc. is the one that had electrical equipment.

 

[Little Bill]

I have a Gould panel in my house now. It was installed in 1985, I believe. I've had no problems getting Siemens breakers to fit it and have had no problems with it.

 

[malachi constant]

Thanks all - esp jraef & kwired. Funny, I ran into some more Gould panels at a different building within two days of the first Gould panels, this time they were Bulldogs.