AFCI Tester?

[JFletcher]

Looking to purchase an AFCI circuit tester. Any recommendations? Saw the Etcon one for $40, and then read this. The Ideal 61-059 is $200.

Also looking to upgrade my GB voltage tester, which just lights up at certain voltages (12,24,120,208,240,277,etc) and displays continuity. Was looking at the Fluke T5-600, and saw this kit. Looks to be about $250, tho it doesnt do AFCI.

Lastly, is anyone using Rack-A-Tiers Crocs needle-nose wire stripper? If so, do you like it?

 

[romex jockey]

So just what does it 'test'.....?

~RJ~

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Given that the arc signature recognition algorithms are proprietary and differ from manufacturer to manufacturer I doubt that there will ever be an universal AFCI tester.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Looking to purchase an AFCI circuit tester. Any recommendations?

My recommendation? Save your money. The only "recognized" way to test an AFCI is with it's test button. Any other device is relegated to the status of "indicator".

As a case in point, take a look at the Ideal 61-069 Instructions by clicking here. Specifically, read the last page, bottom right "Note", especially #2.

 

[user 100]

Looking to purchase an AFCI circuit tester. Any recommendations? Saw the Etcon one for $40, and then read this. The Ideal 61-059 is $200.

Also looking to upgrade my GB voltage tester, which just lights up at certain voltages (12,24,120,208,240,277,etc) and displays continuity. Was looking at the Fluke T5-600, and saw this kit. Looks to be about $250, tho it doesnt do AFCI.

Posts' #2,#3, and 4 cover this perfectly and I agree with them

[/QUOTE]Lastly, is anyone using Rack-A-Tiers Crocs needle-nose wire stripper? If so, do you like it?[/QUOTE]

Works great- does an excellent job stripping and handles are a little better than the ideal t stripper. Runs parity with the klein blues.
Has a nm jacket stripper ( could take it or leave it, use a utility knife) has typical useless (imo) single crimp located just above the handles where you don't want it, etc. but still a great product.

 

[JFletcher]

thanks for the replies. I'll just rely on the test button on the breaker, which seems a total conflict of interest:

"how do we test these?"
mfg: "With the test button."
"how do we independently test these?"
mfg: "you dont. the test button is all you need"
"so they can't be field verified?"
mfg: "sure they can, with the test button"
"..."

this seems akin to my car telling me it needs an oil change after 300 or 20,000 miles because it's been 3 months since I last changed it. and I cant visually check the oil.

I went ahead with the Crocs at lunchtime. Nice, tho the jaw latch seems to get caught open when putting them in my pouch. and the glow in the dark handles dont, unless "dying firefly" is an actual light level. iow, if you drop these under a house, you wont find them.

 

[iwire]

thanks for the replies. I'll just rely on the test button on the breaker, which seems a total conflict of interest:

"how do we test these?"
mfg: "With the test button."
"how do we independently test these?"
mfg: "you dont. the test button is all you need"
"so they can't be field verified?"
mfg: "sure they can, with the test button"
"..."

Maybe so, likely so.

But consider how scummy Ideal is being trying to sell us a tool that they push as a tester when it really does nothing. :roll:

 

[JFletcher]

Maybe so, likely so.

But consider how scummy Ideal is being trying to sell us a tool that they push as a tester when it really does nothing. :roll:

Their overuse of 'if you find a problem, stop: consult qualified electrician' is probably lawyerese, but what it tells me is that their tool is made for a HO and not an electrician. At least the tool is more costly than a service call so I dont see too many HOs wasting money on a glorified GFCI tester.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I'll just rely on the test button on the breaker, which seems a total conflict of interest

I couldn't agree more.

Every single new install of an AFCI breaker or OBC device absolutely sticks in my craw for this very reason.

 

[mbrooke]

IF I am correct the test button is the only valid way to test them.

 

[peter d]

IF I am correct the test button is the only valid way to test them.

The only valid way to test an AFCI is with a hammer and anvil. :thumbsup:

 

[mbrooke]

The only valid way to test an AFCI is with a hammer and anvil. :thumbsup:

:happyyes::happyyes:

 

[JFletcher]

I couldn't agree more.

Every single new install of an AFCI breaker or OBC device absolutely sticks in my craw for this very reason.

Quite different than say cat6 cable, which can and is tested about a dozen different ways in a certification. Ive seen videos of AFCI breakers not even tripping under arcing conditions. Testers cant test it properly, or at all... so lets say a perfectly good and functioning AFCI (if there were such a thing) has its test button fail, we now have a 50$ paperweight. or worse, a non-functioning breaker passes its self test.

Anyway, dont think we need another anti-AFCI thread, so back to my original post: what would be a good meter to get to replace my GB voltage/continuity/non-contact tester? I would like a digital readout, ammeter function, Hz reading, replaceable test leads, and self storing ones if possible. Portable, rugged and no proprietary battery packs would be nice too. Would the Fluke T5-600 fit the bill? Would there be any advantage to getting the 1000V model? If it helps any we do mostly residential work, a fair amount of home generator maintenance/troubleshooting, and some commercial up to 277/480V. No solar or anything the NEC classes as MV.

 

[iwire]

I have the T-1000 because that was what was in stock that day. I wanted the T-600. I have never needed to use it above 500 volts or so.

It will not do Hz but for a daily tool bag all purpose meter it's pretty good.

Not true RMS but I have a Fluke 87 and other Fluke true RMS meters I can use if needed.

 

[ActionDave]

I'll give a thumbs up to the Fluke T-5.

 

[milldrone]

Another thumbs up for the T5.

The form factor is great for carrying in the long side pocket of your Carhartt pants.

The only caveat is to not use it as your only meter. For instance the ohm readings cannot be trusted under unusual conditions. We had an old 1333 drive that was tripping on OL. The unusual condition was the drive output shared the same conduit with 2 other drives (not my install). The sparkie diagnosed the problem as a ground fault with the wires in the conduit. The T5 showed 700 ohms to ground on each of the three wires to ground with the ends of the wires isolated from the drive and the motor. We all know that the T5 will only measure up to 2000 ohms, but if you had a 700 ohm reading the wire must be bad, right?

He had a work request made to run new conduit to isolate the "defective conduit" from the old one and get the line running again. I was surveying the problems with the new conduit run when I verified the readings the other sparkie had taken. 700 ohms to ground with a T5 just like he said, then I took another reading with the T5. I checked line to line ohms with all ends isolated and there was no connection (with the T5). Hmmm? How could you get 700 ohms to ground on each T lead to ground and not have any connection lead to lead?

To verify the readings I used my 87. The 87 showed megaohms to ground, and megaohms lead to lead.

Other tests followed using electronic meggars and hand cranked meggars. An interesting side note was that the electronic meggar showed a ground fault but no fault lead to lead. The hand cranked meggar showed nearly infinity to ground and nearly infinity lead to lead.

 

[milldrone]

I missed the 15 minute edit window.

If you intend to use the T5 as a AFCI or GFCI circuit testing tool (not the AFCI or GFCI itself) you will be disappointed.

 

[GoldDigger]

I would imagine that in some cases some resistance measuring devices will be confused be neutral to ground offset voltages or even strong enough capacitively coupled phantom voltages.
The higher the applied test voltage (e.g. megger) the less the influence of stray voltages on the measurement.

 

[The Spunkster]

I recently got a nice Megger high end TDR and am still digesting practicle applications as it applies to electrical trouble shooting. Does anybody here with TDR experience think it work find AFCI problems?

 

[GoldDigger]

Well, I would expect that a "tight staple" or nail in the NM would not cause a detectable impedance bump in the wiring unless it was actively experiencing either a parallel or a series arc while the TDR was connected. And in that case less expensive testing techniques would probably work just fine to locate the fault.