Generator ATS issue

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TonyEEINC

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Yukon, OK
I have a customer that I installed a Siemens Generator ready panel when they built, I explained the advantages of being prepared and saving money on the install even if they choose to buy a generator later...... I have sold many of these.
The ATS is built by Generac. Well this home owner called, they had bought a 12 KW Kohler generator..... I say no problem, only to find that the Kohler generator is not a match to the Generac transfer switch.
Neither Kohler or Generac is willing to help, I assume this is not the first time this has come up, and I am now faced with calling all my customers and informing them they can only buy Generac................
Has anyone built a work around for this?
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Not I... but generators are not my thing. Hopefully, someone that has done a workaround weighs in....

In the meantime, can you furnish make and model numbers of the ATS and generator (better yet links to product documentation).
 
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GoldDigger

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Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The biggest opportunity for incompatibility in an ATS is if it is required auto-start the generator.
The basic design can range from all the intelligence in the generator to all the intelligence in the ATS as well as anywhere in between.
Units like hybrid battery inverters that have to work with a variety of generators can be configured to work with a variety of control schemes. But a proprietary design does not need that flexibility.
There is no overall standard for the interface design, just for the results. :(

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
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zbang

Senior Member
Location
Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
Depending on the actual incompatibility, could be a simple as adding a simple relay between the two (i.e. generator wants a contact closure and the ATS provides a 12 volt signal, or generator wants NC contacts and the ATS is NO).

Actual product info would help.
 
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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
TonyEEINC said:
I have a customer that I installed a Siemens Generator ready panel when they built, I explained the advantages of being prepared and saving money on the install even if they choose to buy a generator later...... I have sold many of these.
The ATS is built by Generac. Well this home owner called, they had bought a 12 KW Kohler generator..... I say no problem, only to find that the Kohler generator is not a match to the Generac transfer switch.
Neither Kohler or Generac is willing to help, I assume this is not the first time this has come up, and I am now faced with calling all my customers and informing them they can only buy Generac................
Has anyone built a work around for this?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of non-standard residential grade generators and ATSs. The issue is as GoldDigger said, it depends on the proprietary design as opposed to the commercial world where everything is standardized with the smarts of power sensing always in the ATS and using 2 wire start.
If you have the ATS I suspect you have, it is a just a "dumb" switch in that it has no smarts in it and is just an electrically operated switch. That means you have to use it with the genset it was designed for as the power sensing is in the genset and the signal to operate the ATS comes from the genset. Problem is though that this signal to operate the ATS is usually proprietary and designed to work to work with certain manufacturer/model equipment.
Oddly, most of these low end, resi grade gensets (and I think the Kohler model you have) that do the power sensing in the generator can be converted to standard 2 wire start for use with a standard ATS. How ever, the inverse is not usually the case as in you situation-you cant use a proprietary ATS with a 2 wire start generator (in your case you would end up with no "smarts" to sense power outage) or a proprietary genset of a different brand.
All that said, there may be a kit from either Kohler or Generac to make this work. Some research will be in order. All this proprietary nonsense in the resi genset world would be laughable in the commercial world.
 
ATSman

ATSman

ATSman
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Occupation
Electrical Engineer/ Electrical Testing & Controls
texie said:
Welcome to the world of non-standard residential grade generators and ATSs. The issue is as GoldDigger said, it depends on the proprietary design as opposed to the commercial world where everything is standardized with the smarts of power sensing always in the ATS and using 2 wire start.
If you have the ATS I suspect you have, it is a just a "dumb" switch in that it has no smarts in it and is just an electrically operated switch. That means you have to use it with the genset it was designed for as the power sensing is in the genset and the signal to operate the ATS comes from the genset. Problem is though that this signal to operate the ATS is usually proprietary and designed to work to work with certain manufacturer/model equipment.
Oddly, most of these low end, resi grade gensets (and I think the Kohler model you have) that do the power sensing in the generator can be converted to standard 2 wire start for use with a standard ATS. How ever, the inverse is not usually the case as in you situation-you cant use a proprietary ATS with a 2 wire start generator (in your case you would end up with no "smarts" to sense power outage) or a proprietary genset of a different brand.
All that said, there may be a kit from either Kohler or Generac to make this work. Some research will be in order. All this proprietary nonsense in the resi genset world would be laughable in the commercial world.
Click to expand...
I totally agree and you can add industrial world to your last sentence.
 
Chamuit

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
D

dieselgenerator

Member
Location
Chicago
I purchased a Propane Generator from Central Maine Diesel a few years ago.

20 HP Honda engine, Italian generator set head.
Paid about $2300 plus shipping via Paradise Freight which was a few hundred.
I see the price is just a bit higher now... But the one I want most is Yuchai which i saw from a website.

Recently it blew a capacitor. Central Maine sent me 2 for the price of one even though it is out of warranty. $39 total for two.

I looked at generators on island but a similar Honda at Quality electric was close to $6000 and it wasn't even a 13750kw. More like 8 or 9000kw if I remember right.....

They have many generators at great prices but this is the one I settled for.

Quiet, no smell, propane lasts forever........
 
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