Wiring method and depth near pool

[dhalleron]

I am still learning about pools before I do this residential install next week. It meets permanently installed swimming pool criteria.

I believe I understand the #8 awg solid bonding of the motor, metal, ground ring and bonding of the water. I understand the required distances for the gfci protected pump receptacle (not twist lock) and other wiring.

2014 article 680.10 confuses me some unless there is another article that answers my question.

My question is for the pool pump can I install GFCI protected 12/2 UF cable buried 12 inches deep if all of the circuit is kept at least 5 feet from the pool and the pump receptacle is 10 feet from the pool wall?

680.10 says I need to install in conduit if closer than 5 feet and doesn't seem to allow 12 inches deep UF if GFCI protected from the main panel.


680.10 Underground Wiring Location. Underground
wiring shall not be permitted under the pool or within the
area extending 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside
wall of the pool unless this wiring is necessary to supply
pool equipment permitted by this article. Where space limitations
prevent wiring from being routed a distance 1.5 m
(5 ft) or more from the pool, such wiring shall be permitted
where installed in complete raceway systems of rigid metal
conduit, intermediate metal conduit, or a nonmetallic raceway
system. All metal conduit shall be corrosion resistant
and suitable for the location. The minimum cover depth
shall be as given in Table 680.10.

 

[truck41trouble]

If you keep it at least 5 feet away from the pool wall, then this will just be treated as a normal underground branch circuit. I do recommend running conduit though, especially in the vicinity of a pool. Its always possible a deck will be built after the fact, and people sticking weird decorations in the ground. I know the code says differently, but its just a recommendation.

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[Dennis Alwon]

You need to look at 680.21. IMO, uf is not allowed outside for a permanently install pool. Rules fo Single family dwellings allow nm cable inside the house

680.21 Motors.
(A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall
comply with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances
by (A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5).
(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors
shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced
thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the
location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted
in specific locations or applications as covered in
this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an
insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in
accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.

 

[dhalleron]

Thanks Dennis. I bounced around so much I posted wrong section. I did read 680.21.

In your opinion can the circuit be in pvc conduit buried at 12 inches if GFCI protected?

I'm only concerned about that because the homeowner is digging the ditch and I originally told them it could be 12 inches deep.

I'll be done with the questions on this job some day...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thanks Dennis. I bounced around so much I posted wrong section. I did read 680.21.

In your opinion can the circuit be in pvc conduit buried at 12 inches if GFCI protected?

I'm only concerned about that because the homeowner is digging the ditch and I originally told them it could be 12 inches deep.

I'll be done with the questions on this job some day...

I believe 300.5 will allow that cover distance and I don't see any requirements in 680

 

[liveforaliving87]

My company does lots of pools. We run conduit for key switch. Gfi outlets ECT. We run seal tights from pool panel/timer to motors. I have never used uf and we do 50 pools per summer

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[liveforaliving87]

There is so much going on at pool its just safer to use conduit. In my opinion. And just pull thhns. It doesn't take that much more time.

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[dhalleron]

Instead of starting new thread, still questions on same job.

I started it and ran PVC underground with THHN which as an afterthought I think is rated THWN. Need to double check.

I have a problem with the distance from the pool to receptacle without having the pump moved. Can I just change the cord cap to twist lock and move receptacle closer as long as it's at least 6 feet from pool? Will the twist lock receptacle be required to be WR rated? Do they make them WR rated? Or can I just take off the cord and change to sealtite and bring it into a weatherproof switch located 10 feet back from the pool?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't see exceptions for this..

680.22 Lighting, Receptacles, and Equipment.
(A) Receptacles.
(1) Required Receptacle, Location. Where a permanently
installed pool is installed, no fewer than one 125-volt, 15-
or 20-ampere receptacle on a general-purpose branch circuit
shall be located not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from, and
not more than 6.0 m (20 ft) from, the inside wall of the
pool. This receptacle shall be located not more than 2.0 m
(6 ft 6 in.) above the floor, platform, or grade level serving
the pool.
(2) Circulation and Sanitation System, Location. Receptacles
that provide power for water-pump motors or for
other loads directly related to the circulation and sanitation
system shall be located at least 3.0 m (10 ft) from the inside
walls of the pool, or not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from the
inside walls of the pool if they meet all of the following
conditions:
(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Are of the grounding type
(3) Have GFCI protection

 

[GerryB]

I believe 300.5 will allow that cover distance and I don't see any requirements in 680

Doesn't 680.10 contradict 300.5? Since many above ground pools have the GFI in the panel you would think the code would state that in 680 and allow the 12 inch rule.

 

[GerryB]

Doesn't 680.10 contradict 300.5? Since many above ground pools have the GFI in the panel you would think the code would state that in 680 and allow the 12 inch rule.

Just read the commentary which says 300.5 applies, although I have been told 18" by some inspectors.

 

[kwired]

Doesn't 680.10 contradict 300.5? Since many above ground pools have the GFI in the panel you would think the code would state that in 680 and allow the 12 inch rule.

GFCI in the pool equipment may still meet 680 requirements, but does not leave the 12 inch buried underground GFCI protected. Nothing would prohibit additional GFCI protection at the source end, but would allow the 12 inch burial depth in 300.5.

 

[dhalleron]

GFCI in the pool equipment may still meet 680 requirements, but does not leave the 12 inch buried underground GFCI protected. Nothing would prohibit additional GFCI protection at the source end, but would allow the 12 inch burial depth in 300.5.

So kwired, I'm not clear on your reply. Are you saying the 12 inch burial depth would meet code if GFCI protected at the source?

I will be speaking to the electrical inspector on a number of things I am unclear on since this is my first pool install. What are your thoughts on removing the 3' cord on the pump to install sealtite back to a weatherproof switch that is 10' from the pool? I'm still having issues with distances and possibly needing to move the pump because it does not have a twist lock cord cap.

 

[kwired]

So kwired, I'm not clear on your reply. Are you saying the 12 inch burial depth would meet code if GFCI protected at the source?

Yes, GFCI only protects what is on it's load side. I am presuming you have a situation where your minimum burial depth is reduced to 12 inches if GFCI protected, but if that protection isn't until you get to the equipment, then what is buried is not GFCI protected.

 

[dhalleron]

Yes, GFCI only protects what is on it's load side. I am presuming you have a situation where your minimum burial depth is reduced to 12 inches if GFCI protected, but if that protection isn't until you get to the equipment, then what is buried is not GFCI protected.

I do understand GFCI load protection. Been doing this a long time, mostly part time. My pool skills aren't up to speed and it seems there are some different requirements. All of my buried pvc and wire is GFCI protected from the main panel. Hoping 12 inches is good. And still wondering about removing 3 foot cord from pump and sealtite back to a switch 10 feet from pool. Will talk to inspector on Monday.

 

[kwired]

I do understand GFCI load protection. Been doing this a long time, mostly part time. My pool skills aren't up to speed and it seems there are some different requirements. All of my buried pvc and wire is GFCI protected from the main panel. Hoping 12 inches is good. And still wondering about removing 3 foot cord from pump and sealtite back to a switch 10 feet from pool. Will talk to inspector on Monday.

Dennis quoted 680.22, but only part of it. Go furthere down and read part (5), if you have an effective permanent barrier between your pump and the pool that would require more then six feet of cord to be able to reach the pool from the receptacle in question - it is far enough away.

 

[dhalleron]

There is no barrier. Just a pump with 3' non twist lock cord cap that only reaches 6' from the pool. The way I understand, it the receptacle would need to be 10' away requiring moving the pump unless I can do my sealtite fix or build a wall.

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[kwired]

There is no barrier. Just a pump with 3' non twist lock cord cap that only reaches 6' from the pool. The way I understand, it the receptacle would need to be 10' away requiring moving the pump unless I can do my sealtite fix or build a wall.

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680.22(A)(2) tells us the pump receptacle can be as close as 6 feet from the pool if the conditions stated are met, which Dennis quoted earlier but I will quote them again:

(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Are of the grounding type
(3) Have GFCI protection

Then 680.22(A)(5) tells us how to measure that, and describes how a permanent barrier can increase that distance.

So if your pump receptacle is less then six feet away you can either move it further away or maybe try to somehow incorporate some sort of barrier.

The use of locking type receptacles shouldn't change any of these rules any from what I can tell.

 

[dhalleron]

680.22(A)(2) tells us the pump receptacle can be as close as 6 feet from the pool if the conditions stated are met, which Dennis quoted earlier but I will quote them again:

(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Are of the grounding type
(3) Have GFCI protection

Then 680.22(A)(5) tells us how to measure that, and describes how a permanent barrier can increase that distance.

So if your pump receptacle is less then six feet away you can either move it further away or maybe try to somehow incorporate some sort of barrier.

The use of locking type receptacles shouldn't change any of these rules any from what I can tell.

Thanks. I'm good now. I see my mistake and can install the receptacle just beyond 6 feet from the pool. Some of Mike Holt's material and the 2011 NEC mention the locking type receptacle between 6 and 10 feet of the pool. I'll be inspected under 2014 NEC.

2011 680.22(A)(1)
(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Employ a locking configuration
(3) Are of the grounding type
(4) Have GFCI protection

 

[kwired]

Thanks. I'm good now. I see my mistake and can install the receptacle just beyond 6 feet from the pool. Some of Mike Holt's material and the 2011 NEC mention the locking type receptacle between 6 and 10 feet of the pool. I'll be inspected under 2014 NEC.

2011 680.22(A)(1)
(1) Consist of single receptacles
(2) Employ a locking configuration
(3) Are of the grounding type
(4) Have GFCI protection

My quote was from 2014, I did notice a "bullet" between (1) and (2) that would indicate something was removed from previous code but never checked out what was removed. Apparently the locking configuration was removed.