Temporary Service

[jaylectricity]

Should I charge the same amount for a temporary service as I'd charge to replace a service (no upgrade)?

I figure I don't need to pull existing circuits out of a panel and reinstall them in new panel. Also don't need to remove existing meter socket, riser, panel and service conductors.

But I do have to dig a hole and construct a post with a place to install new equipment which is much tougher than screwing the new equipment to existing walls with spaces already dedicated to the equipment.

Plus the paperwork to order a new service from the PoCo.

What do you think, even up?

 

[Justin Trotter]

Builder we do work for expect us to come put them in for free. I think that is stupid but that is what other electrical companies do around us.


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[jaylectricity]

Builder we do work for expect us to come put them in for free. I think that is stupid but that is what other electrical companies do around us.

Well, it's not free, it's just included in part of the overall job. Zero reason anybody would just put one in for free. If you put one in for free hoping that you'd get the job, well then you're just different and good luck to you.

 

[kwired]

What does it cost you?

Are you going to re-use any of the temporary components on the site?

Is your temp equipment sort of put together on one assembly and possible to use again on another project? If so has it already been used on other projects?

How many items used as a part of this temp power assembly are essentially disposed of after it has been used?

Can you temporarily connect to the permanent supply or does the entire supply need to be temporary?

Do you need additional permits or inspection fees before it can be used.

Answers to these questions help determine what it costs you just to provide this temp power.

You may or may not itemize the temp service but it is costing you and lowering your profit if you don't include it somehow in your bid/billing. Getting portions of it back and using them again on other jobs evens things out some over time though, you still have lost labor installing and removing it if you didn't account for that when bidding/billing etc. Is possible to just add some additional labor on bid/invoices to cover this and the builder will think you provided it free when in fact you covered it up with another description - just like our lawmakers like to throw extra stuff onto a legislative bill and hide it behind another front.

 

[jaylectricity]

What does it cost you?

Are you going to re-use any of the temporary components on the site?

Is your temp equipment sort of put together on one assembly and possible to use again on another project? If so has it already been used on other projects?

How many items used as a part of this temp power assembly are essentially disposed of after it has been used?

Can you temporarily connect to the permanent supply or does the entire supply need to be temporary?

Do you need additional permits or inspection fees before it can be used.

Answers to these questions help determine what it costs you just to provide this temp power.

You may or may not itemize the temp service but it is costing you and lowering your profit if you don't include it somehow in your bid/billing. Getting portions of it back and using them again on other jobs evens things out some over time though, you still have lost labor installing and removing it if you didn't account for that when bidding/billing etc. Is possible to just add some additional labor on bid/invoices to cover this and the builder will think you provided it free when in fact you covered it up with another description - just like our lawmakers like to throw extra stuff onto a legislative bill and hide it behind another front.

Those are all great questions in figuring out the exact cost. I also appreciate your analogy to our government, because you're right.

So, in my case, I don't really do work that requires temp services much. The last one I did was for a 50,000 sq ft building, but I just installed a meter socket on the side of the building with a SER to an existing MDP.

My question is, as a one time thing, is the cost of providing a temporary service the same as replacing a service (and bringing it up to code with ground rods, etc).

I definitely understand that if you build a mast with a meter and panel that next time you don't have to buy all the same materials if you have a place to store your first temporary service.

So I'll modify the question...should your customer pay the same for a new temporary service as they pay for a replacement service?

 

[kwired]

Next question is what does this temp service consist of or what are customer/builder's needs for temporary service.

For many smaller construction projects you may just need to provide two to four 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles plus whatever is necessary for a supply to them.

For larger scale projects or special circumstances you could need to temporarily supply much more kVA , actually hardwire some equipment (even though it is temporary), etc.

If doing the latter, I would definitely charge them at least the materials cost, especially if things are needed that I may not use again or in a short time down the road.

In either case I would definitely include in charges to the customer something to cover installation and removal labor as well as additional permits/inspections feed related to the temp power installation.

If it is a simple thing that is moved from one job to another with little constructing or reconstructing it each time there may be little or no fee for the equipment, but things do come back damaged or just plain not working, so some fee is likely to be charged most instances just to help maintain that equipment.

I also have temporary light strings that do not get itemized on invoices when they are used - not just by me but by everyone on site. They are still an overhead cost to have and maintain and at very least need to be covered by your other charges.

 

[jaylectricity]

Thanks for the in-depth, kwired.

The guy I work for is the excavator who has somehow been roped into being the GC for the common area of the property. He wants to build a small shed because that's the only way the town will give him water and gas. But the investor on the project doesn't want to spend a few thousand dollars to do that. Go figure...a multi-million dollar project in Brookline, MA, but $3000 to build a shed just isn't in the budget.

I'm just going to do time and material, make my customer set a post to mount everything to and be done with it. Then later if I have to charge him to remove it, I'll do that and I'll let him store the materials at his shop for the next one.

 

[JFletcher]

Building/installing a pole for temp power for construction is much cheaper than installing a service.

16'* 6x6' pole, tie-in 2x4's/bolts/guy wires for lateral support, meter/main, a few receptacles for overhead service, or 2 4x4x12s with a backboard and same electrical with a conduit running to the ground for underground service. Aside from the ground rod, the entire thing can be transported job to job.

*Technically you need 5' in the ground and 12' overhead, here anyway, but I've never seen it enforced, and it is a temporary service...

 

[kwired]

Building/installing a pole for temp power for construction is much cheaper than installing a service.

16'* 6x6' pole, tie-in 2x4's/bolts/guy wires for lateral support, meter/main, a few receptacles for overhead service, or 2 4x4x12s with a backboard and same electrical with a conduit running to the ground for underground service. Aside from the ground rod, the entire thing can be transported job to job.

*Technically you need 5' in the ground and 12' overhead, here anyway, but I've never seen it enforced, and it is a temporary service...

What if you can't have overhead obstructions in the area?

 

[growler]

So I'll modify the question...should your customer pay the same for a new temporary service as they pay for a replacement service?

They cry and complain no matter what it cost.

A few years ago I did a temp service for a laundry mat that was being remodeled. There was no good place to set a temp pole so I temped one of the panels in the building. They should have been able to get permanent power by the time this needed demoed.

My price was only $500 and that included 2 GFCI receptales in 1900 boxes and raised cover and permit cost and labor to clear other circuits form the panel to make everything safe.

GC cried like a stick pig.

You right to charge whatever you have invested in materials, labor and permits. The materials now belong to the GC.

 

[growler]

Building/installing a pole for temp power for construction is much cheaper than installing a service.

Sure it's probably going to be cheaper than installing a 200 amp service at a house especially if a meter/main combo is used and the panel is some distance from the main.

But what if you compare it to changing out a little 100 amp service at an unfinished garage with only a few circuits. Time and material will not be much different.

If you can do sereval of these at a subdivision you can get the price down some on volume and time saved.

 

[electricguy61]

In my experience, temp pole equipment gets torn up something terrible. Every Tom, Dick and Harry on the job feels they can do whatever they want to it if the electrician isn't on the job. Can't count how many inside panel covers, gfci covers, breakers, etc have totally disappeared or been destroyed.

About all that I can reuse is the pole and maybe the service mast. So if I provide temp service, I figure in the cost of all new equipment, minus the pole. And 4 hrs labor for installation. Or get the GC to set the pole, and we come out and put the equipment on (2 hours)

Here, the general will often get a portable toilet that includes a temp service attached, and we don't have anything do do with it. Works great for me

 

[GoldDigger]

Some would consider that to be a temp service with a portable toilet attached.


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[kwired]

Here, the general will often get a portable toilet that includes a temp service attached, and we don't have anything do do with it. Works great for me

Not that it coulnd't be done here, but EC will be involved as the GC can not pull the permit for the temp service, and it will need a grounding electrode system wherever you put it.