Swimming Pool Electrocutions

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goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I came across this article on the EC&M magazine website and I thought about the swimming pool work and repairs that I do:

http://www.ecmweb.com/safety/compan...lawsuit-admits-not-having-permit-pool-repairs

What I found to be of importance is that I often change out pool motors at a day camp facility in NJ and I never take out permits for this (there are a total of 4 swimming pools and a lake with an aerator pump). My reasoning is that I am not doing any new work - just replacing like with like. When the pumps and motors were originally installed they were properly installed and passed inspection. If I happen to find anything improper, damaged or out-of-the-ordinary I make the correction. I often have to do more than just the electrical work and I actually, physically replace the motor and often the pump housing as well. Do any of you think that I am in violation of any Codes or laws by doing this ?

It should be noted that when any of these pool motors fail or seize up, no one is permitted in the pool until the repair is made and ALL electrical connections and groundings are properly made and pump is primed and running. I've also installed a 55KW, 3-phase generator just for the pool motors. They often have power outages on real hot days and if the kids continue to swim in the pools the PH factor drops below an acceptable level in a short amount of time.

It should also be noted that another EI comes in at the start of each season to update and certify ALL the pool(s) grounding and bonding connections.

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
I can not see anything illegal with what you are doing. Unless the local AHJ requires a permit. Then again you can get a permit still do unsafe work and the inspector may not catch it.

So I think it comes down to your abilities and understanding of the electrical system and the all of the hazards and benefits that are associated with it.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
edward said:
I can not see anything illegal with what you are doing. Unless the local AHJ requires a permit. Then again you can get a permit still do unsafe work and the inspector may not catch it.

So I think it comes down to your abilities and understanding of the electrical system and the all of the hazards and benefits that are associated with it.
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I agree. Many places to replace a component with one of same or equivalent specifications/ratings is does not need a permit and often doesn't even require one to be licensed. Adding to or changing premises wiring is usually what requires licensing and permits.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I would check with your local authority having jurisdiction because some areas require a permit for specifically for pool pumps. It's a CYA situation.

The case in the link happened 30 miles from here in Raleigh, NC. Unfortunately, an underground splice went bad and the neutral was lost in a 3 wire system- no egc
 
I

Ingenieur

Senior Member
Location
Earth
Dennis Alwon said:
I would check with your local authority having jurisdiction because some areas require a permit for specifically for pool pumps. It's a CYA situation.

The case in the link happened 30 miles from here in Raleigh, NC. Unfortunately, an underground splice went bad and the neutral was lost in a 3 wire system- no egc
Click to expand...

A 240 system? L1, L2 and N but no egc?
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Dennis Alwon said:
I would check with your local authority having jurisdiction because some areas require a permit for specifically for pool pumps. It's a CYA situation.

The case in the link happened 30 miles from here in Raleigh, NC. Unfortunately, an underground splice went bad and the neutral was lost in a 3 wire system- no egc
Click to expand...

Here in NJ a like-for-like repair would not need a permit. Except for new fire alarm panels to replace existing.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Ingenieur said:
A 240 system? L1, L2 and N but no egc?
Click to expand...

Back in 2005 it was compliant to run a 3 wire with no equipment grounding conductor to a separate structure. The problem is when the neutral fails and there is a ground fault in a motor then there is no way that a breaker will trip. Apparently, that is what happened. When the pump faulted the water was energized and as the lifeguard was cleaning the pool she got electrocuted.

Not that it matters but this was probably a 3 phase system with no equipment grounding conductor but I am not sure
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Dennis Alwon said:
Back in 2005 it was compliant to run a 3 wire with no equipment grounding conductor to a separate structure. The problem is when the neutral fails and there is a ground fault in a motor then there is no way that a breaker will trip. Apparently, that is what happened. When the pump faulted the water was energized and as the lifeguard was cleaning the pool she got electrocuted.

Not that it matters but this was probably a 3 phase system with no equipment grounding conductor but I am not sure
Click to expand...
Proper equipotential bonding would raise everything in/near the pool to same potential though, there must have been "holes" in the equipotential bonding, or she somehow extended contact between the "pool" and remote grounded object(s).
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
kwired said:
Proper equipotential bonding would raise everything in/near the pool to same potential though, there must have been "holes" in the equipotential bonding, or she somehow extended contact between the "pool" and remote grounded object(s).
Click to expand...

I doubt there was equipotential bonding since the pool was done years ago.....
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Dennis Alwon said:
I doubt there was equipotential bonding since the pool was done years ago.....
Click to expand...
Which is still the true problem. Had service neutral failed or utility had a MGN failure similar accident could still happen.

Equipotential bonding is installed for this very reason being one of the highest on the list of reasons to install it.

Entire pool could be 1000 volts above remote earth and those using the pool should never notice anything.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
We dont do 680 work/installs w/o permits. As for service work, I'd have to look over everything when even doing a pump motor changeout - pools in VA are not electrically inspected annually, and Ive been in many a pump room with horrific wiring, corroded panels, add-ons w/o permits, etc. - no way I'd be the last to touch anything in there.

eta: imho, pools and spas in commercial settings should have to have a yearly inspection similar to an elevator inspection, with posted placards/signage indicating that work was done.
 
R

RICK NAPIER

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
gadfly56 said:
Here in NJ a like-for-like repair would not need a permit. Except for new fire alarm panels to replace existing.
Click to expand...
That's not guite true in the UCC 5:23-2.7 Ordinary Maintenance will tell you what does not need a permit unfortunately it is not an all inclusive list. If it is not on that list it may need a permit, an example of this are a/c and heaters are not on that list and require a permit when changing like for like. Also here in Jersey there are annual pool inspections of public pools and every 5 years a bonding certification holding pools to the most recently adopted NEC code.
 
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