Looking for 400 amp main breaker plug on panel

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kevin C

Member
Hi guys, I'm bidding on a 400 amp single phase service for a residential house. The owner wants a 400 amp main breaker panel. Are there any plug on panels? My supply house quote me on Siemens bolt on, which I don't want because the cost of bolt on AFCI will be crazy. They said Siemens don't make them plug on. Do you know any other manufacture make them?

Thanks in advance.
 
K

Kevin C

Member
480sparky said:
Who designed a 400a service with a 3" raceway?
Click to expand...

Have no idea. It's a new sub division with 5 houses. Utility is already in place on a pad mount transformer, where utility ran 4/0 AL to each hand hole near the house, then from the hand hole a 3" PVC to a 400 amp meter socket nearby. The meter socket is mount on pole then 3" PVC underground to inside the house. Meter socket is about 30 feet away from the house. I will have to check with the inspector about this as the existing meter socket does not have an disconnect.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Kevin C said:
Can't. A 400 amp meter socket and a 3" PVC conduit underground to the basement wall already in place. Plus the owner want a 400 amp panel for some bigger load. (Tesla 90 amp charger/ Elevator)
Click to expand...

If they can afford those they can afford a 400A panel and w/e the bolt on AFCI breakers cost. A quick search tho didnt reveal any 400A panels that didnt also include the meter socket, so 2 200s may be the better/only option.
 
P

packersparky

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Inspector
480sparky said:
Who designed a 400a service with a 3" raceway?
Click to expand...


A 3" PVC raceway is fine for a 400 amp service according the conduit fill tables. Residential only requires a 400 kcmil copper conductor or a 600 kcmil aluminum. The tables allow three 600 kcmil XHHW aluminum conductors in a 3 inch schedule 80 PVC.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Cow said:
Install a gutter or j-box with a distribution block to split the 400 amp feed into two to six service disconnecting means.
Click to expand...
FIFY That one single larger load possibly is on it's own service disconnecting means.

480sparky said:
Who designed a 400a service with a 3" raceway?
Click to expand...
Dwelling probably single phase - one less conductor in the raceway then you may be thinking of. Neutral likely don't need to be same size as ungrounded conductors either.

Kevin - Square D's NQ panels accept both plug on and bolt on circuit breakers if you still want a single panel with 400 amp main breaker.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Little Bill said:
OP
Are you sure it's not a 320A meterbase?
Click to expand...
does not change the answer to the OP's question.

And if he has more then one service disconnecting means any common service conductor only needs sized to the total load calculation. He could feed 350 aluminum to a splice box or gutter, and then split into 4-200 amp 200 amp disconnecting means as long as the total calculated load isn't over 350 amps. If he has same calculated load but through a single 400 amp service disconnect he will need 600 aluminum, even if taking 310.15(B)(7) allowance into consideration, ampacity of 500 aluminum is only 77.5% of 400. d

With multiple service disconnects tapped from a common supply each conductor serving a single disconnect does need to be sized for that individual disconnect rating.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
kwired said:
..........Dwelling probably single phase - one less conductor in the raceway then you may be thinking of. Neutral likely don't need to be same size as ungrounded conductors either.........
Click to expand...

Yep..... I was having a senior moment.


One other thing to consider: If a disconnect is installed at the meter, you'll need to add a grounding conductor to the pull.
 
K

Kevin C

Member
kwired said:
FIFY That one single larger load possibly is on it's own service disconnecting means.

Dwelling probably single phase - one less conductor in the raceway then you may be thinking of. Neutral likely don't need to be same size as ungrounded conductors either.

Kevin - Square D's NQ panels accept both plug on and bolt on circuit breakers if you still want a single panel with 400 amp main breaker.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Home owner insisted on the 400 amp panel install of 2 200Amp. Also want everything copper.
 
K

Kevin C

Member
480sparky said:
Yep..... I was having a senior moment.


One other thing to consider: If a disconnect is installed at the meter, you'll need to add a grounding conductor to the pull.
Click to expand...

There isn't a disconnect at the meter. My plan is to pull 3 400kcmil cu xhhw from meter to 400 amp, then install a 100 sub-panel on 2FL using #2 CU SER.
 
Little Bill

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
kwired said:
does not change the answer to the OP's question.

And if he has more then one service disconnecting means any common service conductor only needs sized to the total load calculation. He could feed 350 aluminum to a splice box or gutter, and then split into 4-200 amp 200 amp disconnecting means as long as the total calculated load isn't over 350 amps. If he has same calculated load but through a single 400 amp service disconnect he will need 600 aluminum, even if taking 310.15(B)(7) allowance into consideration, ampacity of 500 aluminum is only 77.5% of 400. d

With multiple service disconnects tapped from a common supply each conductor serving a single disconnect does need to be sized for that individual disconnect rating.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I was asking OP (Kevin) not kwire:p

I thought maybe the OP thought the meterbase was 400A when most of the time, for residential, they are 320A. Just thought he felt he had to do a 400A panel. I see where he said the customer wanted it.
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Kevin C said:
Can't. A 400 amp meter socket and a 3" PVC conduit underground to the basement wall already in place. Plus the owner want a 400 amp panel for some bigger load. (Tesla 90 amp charger/ Elevator)
Click to expand...

Of course the customer is the one writing the checks, but I think 2 200 amp panels makes more sense. Not only will it be a lot cheaper, just plain more convenient - more room, more breaker spaces, more neutral bar space.....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top