GFCI protection in bathroom for BS1363 Type receptacle

[Gilf]

Hi,

Absolutely confused here!

I am investigating a project and as far as I know GFCI protection is required for all receptacles in bathrooms. I also re-checked the code and as per 210.8 (B) it is required.

However, the receptacles provided in the bathrooms are 250 V, 50 HZ, 13 A, 1 PH + N + G, BS 1363 TYPE, single receptacles. Does anyone know if these are considered to have ground fault protection?

Other than this, I see that on the project all receptacles provided outside are both weatherproof and have GFCI protection specifically written on them.

I am just trying to figure out if there is a certain reason for not providing GFCI protection on the receptacles in the bathroom. Is it may be that these receptacles are 13A and that is below the 15A which the code requires?

Thanks for all the advice in advance!

 

[Gilf]

Also as I understand these BS 13A sockets are fused which acts like a GFCI. However, I need to find a standard to back my saying.

Hi,

Absolutely confused here!

I am investigating a project and as far as I know GFCI protection is required for all receptacles in bathrooms. I also re-checked the code and as per 210.8 (B) it is required.

However, the receptacles provided in the bathrooms are 250 V, 50 HZ, 13 A, 1 PH + N + G, BS 1363 TYPE, single receptacles. Does anyone know if these are considered to have ground fault protection?

Other than this, I see that on the project all receptacles provided outside are both weatherproof and have GFCI protection specifically written on them.

I am just trying to figure out if there is a certain reason for not providing GFCI protection on the receptacles in the bathroom. Is it may be that these receptacles are 13A and that is below the 15A which the code requires?

Thanks for all the advice in advance!

 

[jumper]

Do these receptacles follow the NEC or British Standard, they are wired per BS, but you are trying to apply NEC to them. Confusing...

 

[jumper]

Also as I understand these BS 13A sockets are fused which acts like a GFCI. However, I need to find a standard to back my saying.

GFCI and OCPD are different.

 

[Gilf]

Do these receptacles follow the NEC or British Standard, they are wired per BS, but you are trying to apply NEC to them. Confusing...

Generally NEC and IEC rules are applied to the project. The job is in the middle east and had extra requirements that all general receptacles used had to be BS 13A type.

I am also very confused. I think there must be a reason behind this as all outdoor receptacles do have GFCI protection on them and they are weatherproof but the ones they provided in the bathrooms are only WP. So I was wondering if this had something to do with the receptacle being BS type.

 

[romex jockey]

Generally NEC and IEC rules are applied to the project. The job is in the middle east and had extra requirements that all general receptacles used had to be BS 13A type.

So you're being required to use BS receptacle outlets on an NEC designed system Gilf?

This is going to be interesting.......

~RJ~

 

[Gilf]

So you're being required to use BS receptacle outlets on an NEC designed system Gilf?

This is going to be interesting.......

~RJ~

Yes

Do you guys know if the BS1363 Type receptacles need ground fault protection or the fuse inside them is enough?

 

[Adamjamma]

Hi,

Absolutely confused here!

I am investigating a project and as far as I know GFCI protection is required for all receptacles in bathrooms. I also re-checked the code and as per 210.8 (B) it is required.

However, the receptacles provided in the bathrooms are 250 V, 50 HZ, 13 A, 1 PH + N + G, BS 1363 TYPE, single receptacles. Does anyone know if these are considered to have ground fault protection?

Other than this, I see that on the project all receptacles provided outside are both weatherproof and have GFCI protection specifically written on them.

I am just trying to figure out if there is a certain reason for not providing GFCI protection on the receptacles in the bathroom. Is it may be that these receptacles are 13A and that is below the 15A which the code requires?

Thanks for all the advice in advance!

Ok..someone is using british outlets in a bathroom.
First, are need to see if the circuit is wired to two fuses or one. Odds are, the person is used to UK stuff and wanted to use UK things in the bathroom, but it depends upon what they are using.
In either case, whether wired for 120 or 240, you need to put the gfci breaker in the breaker panel.. if wired for 240, then they will be running a Live Live Ground wiring to use in the USA or Caribbean, unless they are running it on a special inverter or step converter circuit. In the Caribbean it is common to wire it like the 15 A double pole circuit, without the neutral wire, which means a double pole gfci would be required.
If they ran it on a step converter, the step converter might be wired for gfci... or have an RCD circuit on it...
If they ran it through its own inverter into a UK style consumer unit, it would probably have an RCBO or an RCD tied to one or more MCBs, which is how my place in Jamaica is set up, using a dedicated circuit system.

Finally, the outlet itself is set up for 13 amps, but usually on a 16 amp breaker... or a 32 amp breaker if it is using a ring main system, which I doubt. THe plugs are what get the fuses, not the outlets.

When I wore them in Jamaica, I always insist that the operating voltage be put on a label on them... unfortunately, many homeowners insist that label be inside the box.

As far as compliance to USA codes, it is not compliant to my knowledge, but in caribbean is used quite often.

 

[Adamjamma]

Yes

Do you guys know if the BS1363 Type receptacles need ground fault protection or the fuse inside them is enough?

No fuse inside them. Fuse inside the plugs that go into them. They and the plugs are designed to handle a fault of up to 40 amps normally at 240Volts, due to ring mains.

Biggest concern is the voltage the consumer is requesting...Is what they are using able to use 120 volts, or is it 240 only?

Many things I buy in Europe are 120v capable, and only need adapters or a change in cords.

However, if they need 240 volts.. might be better to supply 240 volt 30 amp outlets in bathroom, gfci'd... then make a breakout box with a breaker in it, or an RCD in it, for the UK plugs to use... the inspector sees NEC certified equipment and the consumer has what they want... Usually as simple as taking a UK extension cord and changing it to a 30 amp plug, but wired so your feed neutral is not connected..only ground, and two lives...

 

[Gilf]

Thank you.

Further clarification here:
The system is running on 240V.

Image 1 is the area I talk about. Receptacle is provided near sinks in bathroom.
Image 2 has the panel board schedule of the panel feeding this area.

No where on the panelboard schedule nor the plan I see that this circuit or these receptacles should be GFCI protected.

These is also Image 3 attached here which is from an outdoor area and these receptacles are GFCI protected.

 

[kwired]

2017 NEC has some changes to 210.8. Before 2017 only 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles in bathrooms required GFCI protection. The 2017 rules are still the same for bathroom in dwellings, non dwellings would require GFCI if 150 volts or less to ground.

 

[Adamjamma]

Thank you.

Further clarification here:
The system is running on 240V.

Image 1 is the area I talk about. Receptacle is provided near sinks in bathroom.
Image 2 has the panel board schedule of the panel feeding this area.

No where on the panelboard schedule nor the plan I see that this circuit or these receptacles should be GFCI protected.

These is also Image 3 attached here which is from an outdoor area and these receptacles are GFCI protected.

So, this is from a generator or alternate power supply or a special transformer... No RCDs showing so it would still require GFCI or MCBO... if they used the UK MCBs then you can put RCBO in place to supply gfci but UK setup is 30 ma so...

Besoeker Would be more help than I would as this is a dedicated system but not in consumer boards.. have not been taught that style yet... still learning consumer boards and amendment 3.

 

[Adamjamma]

2017 NEC has some changes to 210.8. Before 2017 only 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles in bathrooms required GFCI protection. The 2017 rules are still the same for bathroom in dwellings, non dwellings would require GFCI if 150 volts or less to ground.

meanwhile, here in UK just about everything residential requires RCD... lighting included... as long as circuit less than 32 amps... Used to be only ground floor, as that was where you could hook your lawnmower, weedeater or hedge trimmer into... even though they wanted RCD on the extensions or plugs for all those items... Think that was what helped people start using battery operated lawn gear here...


NEC might be ok with it as last words were 150 v or less to ground.. 240 v system..lol

 

[kwired]

meanwhile, here in UK just about everything residential requires RCD... lighting included... as long as circuit less than 32 amps... Used to be only ground floor, as that was where you could hook your lawnmower, weedeater or hedge trimmer into... even though they wanted RCD on the extensions or plugs for all those items... Think that was what helped people start using battery operated lawn gear here...


NEC might be ok with it as last words were 150 v or less to ground.. 240 v system..lol

Voltage to ground will depend if the system is 120/240 three wire or 240 two wire. Since he seems to have a mix of NEC and other codes applying it can get messy. Best thing is to stick to one code or the other and not try to mix them, mixing will result in conflicts in some areas, this is one of those areas.

 

[Adamjamma]

Voltage to ground will depend if the system is 120/240 three wire or 240 two wire. Since he seems to have a mix of NEC and other codes applying it can get messy. Best thing is to stick to one code or the other and not try to mix them, mixing will result in conflicts in some areas, this is one of those areas.

Which is why I have to learn both codes and IEC... Because in Caribbean everything is mixed.. Inspectors ok as long as it looks safe to them, if you can show them the pictures or papers to show how you set up the system, and follow local color codes so they understand it...Wires can be from USA or UK, Gauge or Metric, just add tape at end to show local codes, which are old BS color code, before Harmonization...
Plumbing is still in many ways old British standards.. grease trap pits... Gets confusing unless you are used to both standards and like me, own how to books form both countries... which is why I am finally studying to get certification... but, even though codes in JA follow closest to Canadian or International codes, British license is worth more... makes no sense but what they seem to want... My British amateur radio permit meant more than my USA permit did to the people at Spectrum Management..lol