Experiments

[SG-1]

Another interesting experiment is with conductive water in an insulated baking pan, a DC supply, two test tubes filled with the water, then the tubes inverted in the pan of water to be vertical, initially in the inverted position the tubes are full, need a means to hold them, insert leads from the DC source into the test tubes, use insulated wire, and only expose a portion, possibly an inch of copper inside the tube, and apply DC current current.

Bubbles will appear and gradually gas will develop above the water in the tubes. One gas will grow twice as tall as the other. Hydrogen is one gas and the other is oxygen. Which is which? This demonstrates the disassociation of water into its two atomic components.

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I would say the hydrogen should displace twice the volume of water than the oxygen because the water molecule contains twice the hydrogen (HOH or H2O).

 

[SG-1]

Sounds like a Wimhurst machine. I almost built one in high school to complement my van de graaff generator.

SG-1: Just how would you modify a van de graaff to work in a high humidity environment (other than putting it in an air conditioned/dehumidified/purged box?

The humidity in the air is not the problem. A thin layer of water covering the machine is. Heating the machine above the ambient temperature to evaporate the water will work. I have used a heater to force air across the machine to heat it up before & that works. I plan to add some heaters (resistors) in the base that can be turned on an hour or so before using. It is just a small van de graaff, maybe two feet tall, but will produce a six inch arc between the sphere & the base. I will have to experiment with the resistor values a little. Starting out with three 100W 2000 ohm in series.



A stun gun will work to separate some charge also. Have not connected it to the VDG machine yet to compare.

 

[kwired]

Another interesting experiment is with conductive water in an insulated baking pan, a DC supply, two test tubes filled with the water, then the tubes inverted in the pan of water to be vertical, initially in the inverted position the tubes are full, need a means to hold them, insert leads from the DC source into the test tubes, use insulated wire, and only expose a portion, possibly an inch of copper inside the tube, and apply DC current current.

Bubbles will appear and gradually gas will develop above the water in the tubes. One gas will grow twice as tall as the other. Hydrogen is one gas and the other is oxygen. Which is which? This demonstrates the disassociation of water into its two atomic components.

.

I would say the hydrogen should displace twice the volume of water than the oxygen because the water molecule contains twice the hydrogen (HOH or H2O).

I would think you also need to factor in any difference in size of the two individual atoms as well as temperature and pressure effects on their activity, a specific mass of H may not take up same volume of space as same mass of O at a particular given temp/pressure

 

[gar]

190107-0929 EST

kwired:

Run the experiment and see what happens.

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[kwired]

190107-0929 EST

kwired:

Run the experiment and see what happens.

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I would see one gas was taking up more volume than the other as described but have no idea how I would verify which was which.

Another question - how much DC voltage is needed to do this? Maybe doesn't matter too much to get small scale results?

 

[GoldDigger]

I would see one gas was taking up more volume than the other as described but have no idea how I would verify which was which.

The simplest way is to see which one burns when mixed with air.

 

[kwired]

The simplest way is to see which one burns when mixed with air.

Does hydrogen always burn when mixed with air? Hydrogen is supposed to be released when charging lead acid batteries and can be hazardous situation, but if it always burns then we should see this happening all the time when these batteries off gas hydrogen.

 

[GoldDigger]

Does hydrogen always burn when mixed with air? Hydrogen is supposed to be released when charging lead acid batteries and can be hazardous situation, but if it always burns then we should see this happening all the time when these batteries off gas hydrogen.

Not without an ignition source. Any concentration of hydrogen in air will burn when exposed directly to a flame. Only certain concentrations are explosive though.
And if you create a spark inside the confined space above the electrolyte bounded by the cell caps you will indeed cause an explosion that may blow the caps off.

 

[kwired]

Not without an ignition source. Any concentration of hydrogen in air will burn when exposed directly to a flame. Only certain concentrations are explosive though.
And if you create a spark inside the confined space above the electrolyte bounded by the cell caps you will indeed cause an explosion that may blow the caps off.

Only if there is oxygen in there for it to react with right? Or at least any other element it easily reacts with.

 

[SG-1]

I would say the hydrogen should displace twice the volume of water than the oxygen because the water molecule contains twice the hydrogen (HOH or H2O).

I would think you also need to factor in any difference in size of the two individual atoms as well as temperature and pressure effects on their activity, a specific mass of H may not take up same volume of space as same mass of O at a particular given temp/pressure

Good point, now I have to order some test tubes to see. Or just watch some idiot on youtube.

I think we used to call it the split test.

 

[gar]

190107-1041 EST

Find discussion on Avogadro’s law at https://2012books.lardbucket.org/bo....0/s14-03-relationships-among-pressure-t.html

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[kwired]

Originally Posted by kwired
I would say the hydrogen should displace twice the volume of water than the oxygen because the water molecule contains twice the hydrogen (HOH or H2O).

I would think you also need to factor in any difference in size of the two individual atoms as well as temperature and pressure effects on their activity, a specific mass of H may not take up same volume of space as same mass of O at a particular given temp/pressure

Good point, now I have to order some test tubes to see. Or just watch some idiot on youtube.

I think we used to call it the split test.[/QUOTE]Quoted content is your words not mine, then you proceeded to say same thing I tried to reply toward that quote:?

 

[SG-1]

Good point, now I have to order some test tubes to see. Or just watch some idiot on youtube.

I think we used to call it the split test.

Quoted content is your words not mine, then you proceeded to say same thing I tried to reply toward that quote:?[/QUOTE]



I notice the quotes are still a little jumbled. I had not yet considered the molecule size. That is why breaker vacuum bottles are only supposed to be good for 30 years. They slowly fill with hydrogen.

 

[GoldDigger]

Only if there is oxygen in there for it to react with right? Or at least any other element it easily reacts with.

Absolutely, but remember that both electrodes of a cell vent to the same space, so the hydrogen is mixed with exactly the right amount of oxygen.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[GoldDigger]

I would say the hydrogen should displace twice the volume of water than the oxygen because the water molecule contains twice the hydrogen (HOH or H2O).

I would think you also need to factor in any difference in size of the two individual atoms as well as temperature and pressure effects on their activity, a specific mass of H may not take up same volume of space as same mass of O at a particular given temp/pressure

The Ideal Gas Law, which is good to far better than 1% for the conditions stated, tells us that the size and mass of the molecules involved does not matter when looking at the volume of a specified number of molecules.
The atomic mass does factor into the volume of a specified mass of a gas.

Quotes seem to be messing up. I will try to edit via browser when I get the chance.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[ggunn]

Taking energy vs intercepting a part of a communication signal are is what is not the same thing. I don't know enough about radios, but technically you probably are harvesting a small amount of energy in some way when you collect that signal...

I am not an expert of RF, but I don't believe that's true.I do not believe that the signal strength of a radio station is in any way dependent upon how many people are listening to it.

 

[ggunn]

I would think you also need to factor in any difference in size of the two individual atoms as well as temperature and pressure effects on their activity, a specific mass of H may not take up same volume of space as same mass of O at a particular given temp/pressure

Size and mass of the atoms (diatomic molecules, actually) does not matter; the vast majority of a volume of gas is empty space. At normal room temperatures hydrogen and oxygen are so much warmer than their boiling point that they behave very much as ideal gases, so their respective volumes would be 2:1 to a high degree of precision. The only thing I can think of that might make a difference is their relative solubility in water; some amount of each will be trying to some extent to get back into the water as dissolved elemental gas.

 

[retirede]

The simplest way is to see which one burns when mixed with air.

I have actually done this experiment in high school chemistry class.

We lit a wooden stick, then blew it out leaving the tip still glowing hot. When inserted into the test tube containing O2, it reignited. When inserted into the one with hydrogen, we observed a mild ‘pop’ when the hydrogen burned.

I have no idea why I remember this

 

[SG-1]

GAR, I would like to thank you for the experiments you suggested.

 

[mbrooke]

Yes you can as long as you are willing to sacrifice freedom for free electricity. It is illegal.

Doubt it- as long as you are not tempering with equipment.