Ridiculous law WA L&I

[MDJ]

Im sure I will get flack for this post but I’m curious if any other states require electricians to wear your electrical liscence visible on your person? Washington L&I requires this for only electricians. Not HVAC nor plumbers just electricians. We have to wear them on the outside of our clothing and above the waist at all times while on the job. I’ve been doing electrical a long time and to me this is a ridiculous law that is nothing more than a way for inspectors to harass us and generate more revenue in fines. It has the potential to be a safety issue as well as an easy way to lose a very costly card when you take off a shirt or jacket and forget about it. Or it simple falls off unknowingly while your working. The plumbers in Washington fought it a few years back by claiming it was a security issue that by having to where personal information out in the open for all to see. They won. Maybe I’m getting too old but this feels very totalitarian and big government to me. What are your thoughts on this? What other states require this for the electricians or other trades? Thanks in advance for your opinions.

 

[petersonra]

What kind one of the places that I work at occasionally is a government contractor so they have some fairly strict rules about getting into the place. I have to stop at the Guard Station and get a temporary badge whenever I go in. It's a normal clip-on badge. However when I took the safety orientation they said the badge must be placed in a pocket so that it won't get caught in anything when you are out on the floor which is where I always am. It seems pointless to have an id badge in your pocket.

 

[LarryFine]

The plumbers in Washington fought it a few years back by claiming it was a security issue that by having to where personal information out in the open for all to see. They won.

Then you should pursue the exact same pathway they did, especially with there being a precedent.

 

[Coppersmith]

Wearing your license does seem ridiculous.

 

[electrofelon]

I agree that is silly. I work mostly in Seattle proper, and they are much more chill. I actually cant remember even once being asked for my license by Seattle DPD/DCI inspectors. I am actually not even sure where my license is, I haven't seen it in over a year!

 

[petersonra]

Wearing your license does seem ridiculous.

There is a law in Illinois that contractors have to have their license number on their vehicles. It doesn't seem to be all that well enforced.

 

[ptonsparky]

There was talk of requiring I’d of some sort on EC vehicles in our fair state some years ago, but it never got a full head of steam.

 

[MAC702]

... a security issue that by having to where personal information out in the open for all to see...

That was my first thought when I read your first sentence. I won't let cashiers see my address on my ID, either.

 

[retirede]

Ridiculous law WA L&I

Ridiculous law WA L&I

There is a law in Illinois that contractors have to have their license number on their vehicles. It doesn't seem to be all that well enforced.

In my fine Illinois city, only the plumbers seem to comply.

Who is responsible for enforcing this anyway?

 

[petersonra]

In my fine Illinois city, only the plumbers seem to comply.

Who is responsible for enforcing this anyway?

Presumably it's the responsibility of police. My guess is it was put into place just to give police another excuse to hassle people and extort money out of them with Revenue and pretext stops.

 

[retirede]

Presumably it's the responsibility of police. My guess is it was put into place just to give police another excuse to hassle people and extort money out of them with Revenue and pretext stops.

I honestly don’t know, but it would seem strange to me for this type of code-related enforcement to be carried out by the police....it’s kind of like who prosecutes a barber who cuts hair without a license? I would guess nothing happens in unless a complaint is filed.

 

[infinity]

Wearing your license does seem ridiculous.

I agree.

 

[romex jockey]

hailing from a state who's bureaucracy markets failed apprentices better than licensed sparks lends me a particular view on the issue.....~RJ~

 

[junkhound]

FWIW, at least no catch 22 in WA-, not required to violate OSHA hmy:

good ol' mammy state here.... BTW, plumbers are 'encouraged' to wear......
OTOH, when I walk thru the gate of many companies worldwide the company or visitors badge is required to be visible. In EU they often require you to leave your passport (or color copy) at the company gate when on production area properties.
WAC 296-46B-940(3): The certificate may be worn inside the outer layer of clothing when outer protective clothing (e.g. rain gear when working outside in the rain, arc flash, welding gear, etc.) is required. The certificate must be worn inside the protective clothing so that when the protective clothing is removed, the certificate is visible. A cold weather jacket or similar apparel is not protective clothing.
The certificate may be worn inside the outer layer of clothing when working in an attic or crawl space or when operating
equipment (e.g. drill motor, conduit threading machine, etc.) where wearing the certificate may pose an unsafe
condition for the individual. The certificate must be immediately available for examination at all times. When working as
a certified electrician, the electrician must not display a training certificate. When supervising a trainee(s), the
supervising electrician’s certificate must be appropriate for the work being performed by the trainee(s).
Any person working as an electrician or trainee must also possess government issued photo identification and
immediately present that identification when requested by the inspector. Visibly displaying your certificate while
performing an electrical installation allows the public, customers,and other workers to have the knowledge that properly certified persons are the ones doing the work.

This type thinking is sometimes taken to extremes - a co-worker I was riding with got a traffic ticket at an air force base for not wearing his seat belt - he neglected to turn off the car engine when he removed his seat belt to get his wallet out for ID at the gate.

 

[MDJ]

In my fine Illinois city, only the plumbers seem to comply.

Who is responsible for enforcing this anyway?

WA L&I electrical inspectors! Apparently they are now law enforcement also.

 

[MDJ]

FWIW, at least no catch 22 in WA-, not required to violate OSHA hmy:

good ol' mammy state here.... BTW, plumbers are 'encouraged' to wear......
OTOH, when I walk thru the gate of many companies worldwide the company or visitors badge is required to be visible. In EU they often require you to leave your passport (or color copy) at the company gate when on production area properties.
WAC 296-46B-940(3): The certificate may be worn inside the outer layer of clothing when outer protective clothing (e.g. rain gear when working outside in the rain, arc flash, welding gear, etc.) is required. The certificate must be worn inside the protective clothing so that when the protective clothing is removed, the certificate is visible. A cold weather jacket or similar apparel is not protective clothing.
The certificate may be worn inside the outer layer of clothing when working in an attic or crawl space or when operating
equipment (e.g. drill motor, conduit threading machine, etc.) where wearing the certificate may pose an unsafe
condition for the individual. The certificate must be immediately available for examination at all times. When working as
a certified electrician, the electrician must not display a training certificate. When supervising a trainee(s), the
supervising electrician’s certificate must be appropriate for the work being performed by the trainee(s).
Any person working as an electrician or trainee must also possess government issued photo identification and
immediately present that identification when requested by the inspector. Visibly displaying your certificate while
performing an electrical installation allows the public, customers,and other workers to have the knowledge that properly certified persons are the ones doing the work.

This type thinking is sometimes taken to extremes - a co-worker I was riding with got a traffic ticket at an air force base for not wearing his seat belt - he neglected to turn off the car engine when he removed his seat belt to get his wallet out for ID at the gate.

Are you an Electrical inspector? Is this something you write up citations for?

 

[sameguy]

N.Y. No, but you should see what hangs from our necks at a nuke and people will stop you if it isn't hanging correctly.
It has , id., flash card for personal prework steps, special training cards, dosimeter.

 

[goldstar]

There is a law in Illinois that contractors have to have their license number on their vehicles. It doesn't seem to be all that well enforced.

This is what we have here in NJ :

13:31-1.5 Identification of Licensees and Permitees; Vehicles; Stationary; Advertising
a) All commercial vehicles utilized in the practice of licensed electrical contracting shall be visibly marked on both sides with the following information:
1) The name of the licensed electrical contractor in lettering at least three inches in
height; and The 3" rule not really enfoirced.
2) The words Electrical Contractor Business Permit Number or Electrical
Contractor Bus. Permit # followed by the business permit number of the
business permit holder in lettering at least three inches in height. Again, the 3" rule not really enforced
i. Where available space for lettering is limited, either by design of the vehicle
or by the presence of other legally specified identification markings, making
strict compliance with (a)1 or 2 above impractical, the size of the lettering
shall be as close to three inches high as possible within the limited space,
provided the name is clearly visible and readily identifiable.
b) All business correspondence and stationery shall display the following information:
1) The name of the licensed electrical contractor;
2) The words Electrical Contractor Business Permit Number or Electrical
Contractor Bus. Permit # followed by the business permit number of the
business permit holder; and
Page 5 of 38
3) The business address, including the street name and number, of the qualifying
licensee.
c) All advertising shall include the following information:
1) The name of the licensed electrical contractor;
2) The words Electrical Contractor Business Permit Number or Electrical
Contractor Bus. Permit # followed by the business permit number of the
business permit holder; and
3) The business address, including the street name and number, of the qualifying
licensee.
d) Every licensed electrical contractor whose name, office address, place of practice,
license number or business permit number appears or is mentioned in any
advertisement of any kind or character shall be presumed to have caused, permitted
or approved the advertising and shall be personally responsible for its content and
character.
e) No licensee shall perform electrical contracting work without having in his or her
possession a business permit identification as provided in N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9.

Our illustrious Governor seems to keep sneaking things into law via the back door so I'm guessing wearing our contractor's license on our person at all times is not far down the path to a reality (I hope I'll be retired before that happens).

As far as enforcement goes here in NJ, if your license # is not on your service vehicle either an EI or an EC who doesn't have much work will turn you in. The fine is $1K for the first offense if found guilty by the Board of Electrical Examiners.

 

[Besoeker3]

Im sure I will get flack for this post but I’m curious if any other states require electricians to wear your electrical liscence visible on your person? Washington L&I requires this for only electricians. Not HVAC nor plumbers just electricians. We have to wear them on the outside of our clothing and above the waist at all times while on the job. I’ve been doing electrical a long time and to me this is a ridiculous law that is nothing more than a way for inspectors to harass us and generate more revenue in fines. It has the potential to be a safety issue as well as an easy way to lose a very costly card when you take off a shirt or jacket and forget about it. Or it simple falls off unknowingly while your working. The plumbers in Washington fought it a few years back by claiming it was a security issue that by having to where personal information out in the open for all to see. They won. Maybe I’m getting too old but this feels very totalitarian and big government to me. What are your thoughts on this? What other states require this for the electricians or other trades? Thanks in advance for your opinions.

I agree on the personal information issue.
Most plants I went required you display your site safety passport which had a personal photograph and your place of employment which would not normally be a personal address. But what do you do if you work from home?

I read somewhere that some employers in UK want to have their employees chipped.
Orwellian comes to mind.

 

[Cow]

Im sure I will get flack for this post but I’m curious if any other states require electricians to wear your electrical liscence visible on your person? Washington L&I requires this for only electricians.

Our shop is just right over the Columbia River in Oregon. So we venture into WA off and on for projects.

We had a project in WA wiring some potato storage quite some time ago. When an inspector came on site for inspections, it was standard procedure for them to have us round all our guys up and show our licenses. That happened every time they sent a different inspector out, until eventually they ran out of different inspectors to send, and we were back to the ones who had already seen our licenses.

When the law changed, and now required us to wear licenses visible on our bodies, I can remember one of our guys piping up, after the inspector asked why he wasn't wearing a visible license. He asked why the inspector wasn't wearing his license where it was visible too??

We're on a job right now in WA, and they haven't been bothering us with the visible license thing. But the inspector did inform us they have a safety and compliance officer that does nothing but drive around to different jobs to verify you are in compliance at all times. I haven't heard if we've gotten a visit from him yet....

They definitely take it more seriously than most in WA.