Aluminum wiring - Home inspector

[Stevenfyeager]

Home inspector recommends aluminum wiring 'electrician assure proper installation.' House built in 1972. I checked outlets, they are original Slater brand, didn't see AL rating anywhere on the outlet. I told the seller the only way I could sign off is if he replaced all outlets etc with AL rating. Was I correct ? Thank you

 

[growler]

Home inspector recommends aluminum wiring 'electrician assure proper installation.' House built in 1972. I checked outlets, they are original Slater brand, didn't see AL rating anywhere on the outlet. I told the seller the only way I could sign off is if he replaced all outlets etc with AL rating. Was I correct ? Thank you

Is there a possibility that the house may get a major remodel in the near future? If so the buyer may wish to purchase it as-is and then have it rewired.

Yes the very least I would be willing to do is replace existing receptacles with the correct ones.

 

[pjones]

Why not pigtail with copper wire to the existing outlets, using the approved connectors to make that transition from the aluminum wire to the copper wire. It might be a cheaper solution for the purchaser if that’s allowed to be done where you are.


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[masterinbama]

Why not pigtail with copper wire to the existing outlets, using the approved connectors to make that transition from the aluminum wire to the copper wire. It might be a cheaper solution for the purchaser if that’s allowed to be done where you are.


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I've used the copalums on several houses with no call backs as of yet.

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[romex jockey]

Is there a nema standard for this? ~RJ~

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Why not pigtail with copper wire to the existing outlets, using the approved connectors to make that transition from the aluminum wire to the copper wire. It might be a cheaper solution for the purchaser if that’s allowed to be done where you are.


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Thank you, but around here, those wire nuts are $2.60 each. (even in bulk) It would take three per outlet, $7.80.
Plus added labor time, plus the older boxes have less space to add 3 nuts than modern boxes. I would rather replace the outlets with AL rated ones. I would actually rather not do the job at all.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I would actually rather not do the job at all.

+1.

the only way i'd accept warranty and liability on a house
done in aluminum, is if i did a complete rewire. in copper.

during the housing boom of the 1970's, a couple hundred
thousand houses here were wired in aluminum. i've seen
enough charred studs and burnt stuff. i'm good, thanks.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Thank you, but around here, those wire nuts are $2.60 each. (even in bulk) It would take three per outlet, $7.80.
Plus added labor time, plus the older boxes have less space to add 3 nuts than modern boxes. I would rather replace the outlets with AL rated ones. I would actually rather not do the job at all.

those wire nuts are so expensive, 'cause in each box, there is a
little tiny lawyer, folded up.

their actuaries KNOW they will get sued when that house catches
fire. just like you will, if you worked on it.

you do have a little tiny lawyer folded up in your tool buckie, right?

 

[augie47]

those wire nuts are so expensive, 'cause in each box, there is a
little tiny lawyer, folded up.

their actuaries KNOW they will get sued when that house catches
fire. just like you will, if you worked on it.

you do have a little tiny lawyer folded up in your tool buckie, right?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Yes, you were correct.
From my own experiences, at the request of the owners,
I have inspected and re terminated splices and devices in apartment complexes converted to condominiums.
I didn't find that many failed terminations than I would have with copper wiring.
I would replace all the devices with cu/Al approved devices, use the aluminum rated wire nuts everywhere else and upgrade the switch boxes where it's tight as and charge them according.
Word your permit and invoice specific to what you did.
Good luck.

 

[romex jockey]

you do have a little tiny lawyer folded up in your tool buckie, right?

yup, he's all i could afford.....and gets really mad when those giant insurance company lawyers pick their teeth w/him.....~RJ~

 

[jeff48356]

+1.

the only way i'd accept warranty and liability on a house
done in aluminum, is if i did a complete rewire. in copper.

during the housing boom of the 1970's, a couple hundred
thousand houses here were wired in aluminum. i've seen
enough charred studs and burnt stuff. i'm good, thanks.

EXACTLY!! I was just going to say the same thing. I would tell the seller that the house needs to be rewired (or just the circuits that are AL) because the wiring is dangerous and could start a fire at any time. I would not want the liability of having touched such wiring.

If I were buying the house, that would be the first thing I would do before moving in.

 

[ptonsparky]

About 30 years ago I pigtailed Cu to the devices of an Al wired house. At the time I had to order in the connectors approved for the purpose. I don’t believe those items are available anymore. They appear to have worked. The house is still there and no call backs, so far.

 

[zbang]

I would tell the seller that the house needs to be rewired (or just the circuits that are AL) because the wiring is dangerous and could start a fire at any time.

I realize that only electricians would understand the difference, but the wiring won't start any fires, the terminations might. I'm not aware of any fires being started in the middle of a run (but I'm prepared to be corrected ).

 

[jeff48356]

I realize that only electricians would understand the difference, but the wiring won't start any fires, the terminations might. I'm not aware of any fires being started in the middle of a run (but I'm prepared to be corrected ).

Yep, you know what I meant! Fires start at connections and terminations, because that's where the oxidation occurs, which causes loose connections with high resistance and overheating.

 

[LarryFine]

Yep, you know what I meant! Fires start at connections and terminations, because that's where the oxidation occurs, which causes loose connections with high resistance and overheating.

I believe the loose connections come from repeated cycling of current, which causes the aluminum to expand and flatten under the screw head, which is looser when it cools, causing more heat with cycling of current, etc.

Tightening the screws restores the low-resistant connection, which should last another 30-40 years, especially now that the wire has flattened, which means even better connections than when the house was first built.

 

[ramsy]

I realize that only electricians would understand the difference, but the wiring won't start any fires, the terminations might. I'm not aware of any fires being started in the middle of a run (but I'm prepared to be corrected ).

Marketing can be educational, especially if the laws of physics can be communicated by Monkeys waving their hands, with a few expletives, to warn against uninsurable fire hazards.

Why fix a few plugs with Copalum or alumicon's when upsell language can illicit visions of spontaneous combustion behind walls.

If you have a Master's license, you are not limited to listed means for minor repairs, which could last another 50yrs and generate little revenue.

 

[romex jockey]

I realize that only electricians would understand the difference, but the wiring won't start any fires, the terminations might. I'm not aware of any fires being started in the middle of a run (but I'm prepared to be corrected ).

Trust me, somewhere in America right now ,a deputy chief is preparing his report.......entering a burnt out cellar hole..... looking over a run of charred AL :happyno:~RJ~

 

[drcampbell]

I believe the loose connections come from repeated cycling of current, which causes the aluminum to expand and flatten under the screw head, which is looser when it cools, causing more heat with cycling of current, etc.
Tightening the screws restores the low-resistance connection, which should last another 30-40 years, especially now that the wire has flattened, which means even better connections than when the house was first built.

I never took one apart, but if a listed CO/ALR receptacle contains a belleville spring washer, it will maintain a near-constant clamping force while the aluminum wire expands & contracts.
https://www.leespring.com/int_learn_belleville_wash.asp

I doubt very much that any additional flattening occurs after the initial installation.

Leviton uses indium-plated screws (but not pressure pads?) on their CO/ALR devices to make a gas-tight connection.
http://blog.leviton.com/coalr-rated-devices

 

[ActionDave]

I never took one apart, but if a listed CO/ALR receptacle contains a belleville spring washer.....

I have never seen a belleville washer on Cu/Al device in my life.