NMC (ROMEX) SUPPORT AND SECURE

[Tom Drake]

334.30 States that the romex is required to be supported and secured every 4.5' min. In an attic where it is accessible, this is the method we use. A house that has a flat roof and second floor. The entire attic is NOT accessible. We only secured it when we ran with the trusses per code. But along the horizontal trusses we only secured as needed at turns. The trusses are supporting cable. We passed inspection with flying colors. The home owner hired a separate inspector. He wants us to secure all to code. Question is..... Is there anything in code that allows us not to secure ALL the cable every 4.5'. Our City inspector agrees that as long as it is supported. He does not require all the wire running over the trusses to be secured. Again this is a inaccessible attic. Less than 2' of space. No scuttle holes.

 

[kwired]

334.30 States that the romex is required to be supported and secured every 4.5' min. In an attic where it is accessible, this is the method we use. A house that has a flat roof and second floor. The entire attic is NOT accessible. We only secured it when we ran with the trusses per code. But along the horizontal trusses we only secured as needed at turns. The trusses are supporting cable. We passed inspection with flying colors. The home owner hired a separate inspector. He wants us to secure all to code. Question is..... Is there anything in code that allows us not to secure ALL the cable every 4.5'. Our City inspector agrees that as long as it is supported. He does not require all the wire running over the trusses to be secured. Again this is a inaccessible attic. Less than 2' of space. No scuttle holes.

I'm not convinced it says what some think it says. I think it needs secured or supported at the interval mentioned and secured within a certain dimension of boxes, cabinets, etc.

If it needed secured and supported and you ran through drilled holes in framing members - it is supported at every framing member but not secured - you would need staple or other fastener every third stud in 16"OC walls to secure it.

 

[growler]

334.30 States that the romex is required to be supported and secured every 4.5' min. In an attic where it is accessible, this is the method we use. A house that has a flat roof and second floor. The entire attic is NOT accessible. We only secured it when we ran with the trusses per code. But along the horizontal trusses we only secured as needed at turns. The trusses are supporting cable. We passed inspection with flying colors. The home owner hired a separate inspector. He wants us to secure all to code. Question is..... Is there anything in code that allows us not to secure ALL the cable every 4.5'. Our City inspector agrees that as long as it is supported. He does not require all the wire running over the trusses to be secured. Again this is a inaccessible attic. Less than 2' of space. No scuttle holes.

Less than 2 ft of space ? Did you have to fish the cable from point A to point B ?

I'm not going to try and get in a space of less than 2" because I may never get out.

If you can get some staples in it's probably just better to humor the guy. Then find that other inspector and break his arms (just joking).:jawdrop:

 

[HoosierSparky]

334.30 States that the romex is required to be supported and secured every 4.5' min. In an attic where it is accessible, this is the method we use. A house that has a flat roof and second floor. The entire attic is NOT accessible. We only secured it when we ran with the trusses per code. But along the horizontal trusses we only secured as needed at turns. The trusses are supporting cable. We passed inspection with flying colors. The home owner hired a separate inspector. He wants us to secure all to code. Question is..... Is there anything in code that allows us not to secure ALL the cable every 4.5'. Our City inspector agrees that as long as it is supported. He does not require all the wire running over the trusses to be secured. Again this is a inaccessible attic. Less than 2' of space. No scuttle holes.

HOME INSPECTORS are not CODE OFFICIALS. Your building inspector is. If your contract says you shall comply with corrections from a HOME INSPECTOR, you are stuck, otherwise provide the home owner with a WORK ORDER for the additional work and smile.

 

[Tom Drake]

This is new construction. No fishing. Where does it actually say in code book. "not accessible at 2' or less"

Less than 2 ft of space ? Did you have to fish the cable from point A to point B ?

I'm not going to try and get in a space of less than 2" because I may never get out.

If you can get some staples in it's probably just better to humor the guy. Then find that other inspector and break his arms (just joking).:jawdrop:

 

[growler]

Where does it actually say in code book. "not accessible at 2' or less"

Well now think about this. If the attic space was 30 sq ft and had a vertical clearance of 30" then attic access (scuttle hole ) would be required. I would assume that 30" plays a part in being accessible.

 

[packersparky]

I'm not convinced it says what some think it says. I think it needs secured or supported at the interval mentioned and secured within a certain dimension of boxes, cabinets, etc.

If it needed secured and supported and you ran through drilled holes in framing members - it is supported at every framing member but not secured - you would need staple or other fastener every third stud in 16"OC walls to secure it.

The code says secured and supported. As for running through drilled holes in framing members 334.30(A) says that is considered as being secured and supported.

 

[al hildenbrand]

The code says secured and supported. As for running through drilled holes in framing members 334.30(A) says that is considered as being secured and supported.

Exactly.

Inspectors here, if they think about it when they see a string across the top of ceiling joists is they will push up on them to see if they will lift away from too many joists. Been inspected that way for decades.

 

[hbiss]

This is new construction. No fishing. Where does it actually say in code book. "not accessible at 2' or less"

When did this "inspector" see this? When the house was finished or after rough before the rock and insulation?

When running cables in spaces on rafters that will have no access when the house is finished, we often "run them wild" which means that they are run as though they were fished. No staples, no dressing.

What does the Code say about fishing NM? Do you still have to fasten it? :happyno:

"Not accessible" means that you can't get into that space without removing building finishes. Nothing in the code about that. Doesn't matter how high or big it is.

-Hal

 

[shortcircuit2]

NMC has not been available for years...

 

[packersparky]

When running cables in spaces on rafters that will have no access when the house is finished, we often "run them wild" which means that they are run as though they were fished. No staples, no dressing.

-Hal

That would not be allowed here if is not already a "finished building".

 

[romex jockey]

HOME INSPECTORS are not CODE OFFICIALS.

especially when confronted BY code(s)....

334.23 refers to 320.23>>

Where this space is not accessible by permanent stairs or
ladders, protection shall only be required within 1.8 m (6 ft) of
the nearest edge of the scuttle hole or attic entrance.

~RJ~

 

[Jamesco]

The code says secured and supported. As for running through drilled holes in framing members 334.30(A) says that is considered as being secured and supported.

That may be what the NEC says but what does the AHJ in the OP's area say? The AHJ has the final say. What does the City electrical Ordinance allow? That is what the OP should check out.

In the Metro and surrounding Suburbs/cities in my area the NM cable is supported if laying across the ceiling joists in the attic. Doen't matter if the space height is 24" or 24ft. The only time the NM cable needs a staple is within 12" of a box, can light make-up box, ect.

Here's the problem I have with a staple every 4 1/2' that holds the NM cable solidly, rigidly, in place across the top of the ceiling joists. Once the attic insulation is blown-in the NM is buried in the insulation. For what ever reason if a person gets in the attic the person can't see the joist let alone the NM cable. Roof trusses here are 24"OC. The NM cable is going to be stepped on. It needs to have the ability to move somewhat. If it is held solidly, rigidly, something has to give. If a steel staple is used for the support what are the chances the staple will damage the outer sheath of the NM when a person steps on the NM cable, on the joist?

 

[kwired]

The code says secured and supported. As for running through drilled holes in framing members 334.30(A) says that is considered as being secured and supported.

Ok fine, if I have horizontal run through studs, then hit an outlet box that is within (8 inches one gang box wo clamps or) 12 inches of the hole through which the cable passes I shouldn't need additional securing, near that box right?

If we always need both securing and support why the need for both terms, securing sort of is both functions all in one anyway, but you can support something without securing it.

 

[growler]

"Not accessible" means that you can't get into that space without removing building finishes. Nothing in the code about that. Doesn't matter how high or big it is.

-Hal

This is where you leave the NEC and go over to the building codes. If an attic space is over 30 square ft and has 30" of vertical clearance then you have to provide attic access. So now it is ​accessible .