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    #16
    Was a Square D only electrician but not so much after replacing this panel (actually replaced this with another Square D)..... have only been installing Seimens lately
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    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

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      #17
      Originally posted by ritelec View Post
      Was a Square D only electrician but not so much after replacing this panel (actually replaced this with another Square D)..... have only been installing Seimens lately
      Classified breakers will do that. Not sure that was the case here, but I've seen plenty of burnt QOs with none Square D breakers.

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        #18
        They were QO breakers in a QO panel. I still think they're great and believe in the equipment, just came down a notch and realized they are just another panel board and breaker.
        " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

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          #19
          Originally posted by ritelec View Post
          They were QO breakers in a QO panel. I still think they're great and believe in the equipment, just came down a notch and realized they are just another panel board and breaker.
          Keep in mind that all brands, even bolt ons and DIN rails can burn up. Don't let one QO sour your preference.

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            #20
            Originally posted by ritelec View Post
            They were QO breakers in a QO panel. I still think they're great and believe in the equipment, just came down a notch and realized they are just another panel board and breaker.
            Did you figure out why those breakers burned that bad. I have never seen a panel in that bad a condition unless there was a reason.

            I have seen a panel in a pool house that was like that after all the chemical ate away the bus.I have panels exposed to moisture and one in a restaurant where flour dust was getting into the panel so bad it was forming a coating on the bus. I have seen panels in apartments where some idiot painted (over sprayed) the bus causing poor connections.

            Think maybe someone had that panel in the back of a pickup during a rain storm before it was installed?
            The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

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              #21
              We’ve replaced QO loadcenters similar to the damage shown. Ours were on grain bins and I suspect the vibrations of the fans complimented the failures along with the moisture and dirt.

              CH then QO would be my preferred followed by the CH BR and Homeline for dollar conscious projects. CH has been consistently available in the area throughout my business years.
              Tom
              TBLO

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                #22
                I'm fairly impressed by SQ D QO noodle buss, but wish for the GE faux afci feature...~RJ~

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                  #23
                  I can't stand Square D QO for several reasons. The bus/breaker connection is not good because the metal clip on the breaker loosens up over time and makes a poor connection. It's very common to be able to pull a QO breaker off the buss with barely any force, and sometimes if you're working in a panel you can accidentally dislodge an adjacent breaker because it's so loose. I hate the stacked neutral bar. The size of the AFCI's is ridiculous (this applies to Homeline as well.) Also, the terminals on the AFCI's are a joke. Square D needs to seriously look into redesigning their AFCI breakers to catch up to their competitors with normal sized breakers. I would still use a Homeline as long as no AFCI's are required for the aforementioned reason but these days I steer clear of Square D. I would not ever recommend a QO panel to anyone, for any reason.

                  My new personal favorite is Eaton Cutler Hammer BR (and sometimes CH). Now that Eaton has a plug on neutal with a normal sized AFCI breaker, they are the clear winner. I don't use GE but would be fine with them, since their regular AFCI's do not include GFPE.

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                    #24
                    I still consider the BR line Zinsco II, when Westinghouse bought Challenger, their loadcenters became the BR panels, and the BR breakers were listed and branded for Challenger, plus used Zinsco mains in 150A plus main breaker panels, so Challenger, and Westinghouse BR, were the same, when Eaton took over the Zinsco mains went away, but being advertised as "Engineered Value" is just newspeak for cheap. I prefer CH loadcenters, they are the last quality residential/light commercial panel, 2nd choice is Siemens, 3rd would be QO, after that, anything but a Zinsco II. After the end of Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger somebody has to be at the bottom, Eaton BR fits it well as the garbage line.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by norcal View Post
                      I still consider the BR line Zinsco II, when Westinghouse bought Challenger, their loadcenters became the BR panels, and the BR breakers were listed and branded for Challenger, plus used Zinsco mains in 150A plus main breaker panels, so Challenger, and Westinghouse BR, were the same, when Eaton took over the Zinsco mains went away, but being advertised as "Engineered Value" is just newspeak for cheap. I prefer CH loadcenters, they are the last quality residential/light commercial panel, 2nd choice is Siemens, 3rd would be QO, after that, anything but a Zinsco II. After the end of Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger somebody has to be at the bottom, Eaton BR fits it well as the garbage line.


                      There are literally billions of 1" plug on loadcenters in this country, none of them I would consider true garbage. They serve the purpose for the residential market, which is huge. Any trace of Zinsco influence is long gone with the Cutler Hammer products now.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by peter d View Post
                        I don't use GE but would be fine with them, since their regular AFCI's do not include GFPE.
                        But Pete the GFPE function of the Arc Fault breaker is probably going to be the only part of the whole system that may actually work.
                        The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by growler View Post
                          But Pete the GFPE function of the Arc Fault breaker is probably going to be the only part of the whole system that may actually work.
                          I certainly understand that. But what is worse - lack of GFPE, or losing untold money from callbacks? The contractor I worked for certainly lost a lot of money over the years from nuisance tripping AFCI's. And besides, the GE AFCI is still UL listed.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by peter d View Post


                            There are literally billions of 1" plug on loadcenters in this country, none of them I would consider true garbage. They serve the purpose for the residential market, which is huge.
                            How many panels have you ever changed out that are not at least 30 years old and more likely over 40 ?

                            For many years a lot of jurisdictions didn't even require a permit to change out a panel because it was considered normal maintenance . With a new panel and all new breakers you could be pretty darn sure it would work as designed. All the connection are now tight and probably good for another 30 to 40 years.
                            The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by growler View Post
                              How many panels have you ever changed out that are not at least 30 years old and more likely over 40 ?

                              For many years a lot of jurisdictions didn't even require a permit to change out a panel because it was considered normal maintenance . With a new panel and all new breakers you could be pretty darn sure it would work as designed. All the connection are now tight and probably good for another 30 to 40 years.
                              I'm not sure I get your point. I'm all for changing out old panels. I'm simply saying other than truly bad designs like Zinsco and FPE, the regular 1" plug on loadcenter is a good, reliable product that is time tested and proven, even if it's considered a "cheap" brand.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by peter d View Post
                                I'm not sure I get your point.
                                Pete I was agreeing with you on this point. Most residential panels last as long as you could reasonably expect them to. The same goes for receptacles and switches. They were never designed to last forever.
                                The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

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