Electronics in breakers

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LarryFine

LarryFine

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The only "electronics" in standard breakers I'm aware of are in adjustable-trip and, loosely, shunt-trip coils.
 
Jraef

Jraef

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mbrooke said:
Ok, including those cartridges on Spectra breakers?
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Yes. In a nutshell once you get to 1000A and above, the requirement for GF trip has pushed everyone to use ETUs (Electronic Trip Units). Years ago you would add an external GF trip unit to an old T-M breaker, but that meant the mfrs had to support inventory for two different versions of the same frame and once ETUs became cheap, it made no more sense. With some mfrs that philosophy has now drifted down into lower frame sizes so even if you order a non-adjustable trip, you are still getting an ETU without an adjustment means. It varies from one mfr to another though.

In the coming years we will see this more and more in new equipment as the old NEMA molded case breakers become obsolete and the mfrs become more and more global in focus. Rules that apply outside of North America called RoHS (meaning Reduction of Hazardous Substances, referred to as “rohass”) mean that the fiberglass reinforced plastic used in our old style breakers can no longer be used because it cannot be recycled. Newer breaker designs use different materials but required new frame engineering, leading to incompatibility with some older designs. So although we will still see the older designs made for decades into the future here in North America because of the installed base, it will be relegated to retrofit use and become very expensive. What we already have started seeing is new gear being designed and built to only use the new versions of breakers with no options for the older ones. How that relates to the original question is that many of these newer designs will have ETUs starting at 250A frames as standard.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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Jraef said:
Yes. In a nutshell once you get to 1000A and above, the requirement for GF trip has pushed everyone to use ETUs (Electronic Trip Units). Years ago you would add an external GF trip unit to an old T-M breaker, but that meant the mfrs had to support inventory for two different versions of the same frame and once ETUs became cheap, it made no more sense. With some mfrs that philosophy has now drifted down into lower frame sizes so even if you order a non-adjustable trip, you are still getting an ETU without an adjustment means. It varies from one mfr to another though.
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How do I know I am getting electronics? What breaker brands/models are available today without electronics?

In the coming years we will see this more and more in new equipment as the old NEMA molded case breakers become obsolete and the mfrs become more and more global in focus. Rules that apply outside of North America called RoHS (meaning Reduction of Hazardous Substances, referred to as “rohass”) mean that the fiberglass reinforced plastic used in our old style breakers can no longer be used because it cannot be recycled. Newer breaker designs use different materials but required new frame engineering, leading to incompatibility with some older designs. So although we will still see the older designs made for decades into the future here in North America because of the installed base, it will be relegated to retrofit use and become very expensive. What we already have started seeing is new gear being designed and built to only use the new versions of breakers with no options for the older ones. How that relates to the original question is that many of these newer designs will have ETUs starting at 250A frames as standard.
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I don't like everything about globalization :( Stupid IEC committees.... :rant::rant::rant::rant:
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mbrooke

mbrooke

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Jraef said:
Yes. In a nutshell once you get to 1000A and above, the requirement for GF trip has pushed everyone to use ETUs (Electronic Trip Units). Years ago you would add an external GF trip unit to an old T-M breaker, but that meant the mfrs had to support inventory for two different versions of the same frame and once ETUs became cheap, it made no more sense. With some mfrs that philosophy has now drifted down into lower frame sizes so even if you order a non-adjustable trip, you are still getting an ETU without an adjustment means. It varies from one mfr to another though.

In the coming years we will see this more and more in new equipment as the old NEMA molded case breakers become obsolete and the mfrs become more and more global in focus. Rules that apply outside of North America called RoHS (meaning Reduction of Hazardous Substances, referred to as “rohass”) mean that the fiberglass reinforced plastic used in our old style breakers can no longer be used because it cannot be recycled. Newer breaker designs use different materials but required new frame engineering, leading to incompatibility with some older designs. So although we will still see the older designs made for decades into the future here in North America because of the installed base, it will be relegated to retrofit use and become very expensive. What we already have started seeing is new gear being designed and built to only use the new versions of breakers with no options for the older ones. How that relates to the original question is that many of these newer designs will have ETUs starting at 250A frames as standard.
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Will the same ally to fused bolted pressure switches? Will fuses still remain without electronics?
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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GoldDigger said:
Thank you....
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And honestly, it just doesn't sit well with me. What is the failure rate of GFCIs? How many have pushed the test button on an AFCI and it did not trip? No one is going to test large frame breakers 10, 20, 30, 60 years down the road every so often.


Me thinks I should stick to fused gear for anything over 200amps.
 
Tony S

Tony S

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Like others, I don’t understand you’re mistrust of electronic trips. In forty plus years I’ve worked on breakers from the 40’s to the present day, I’ve only had two fail.

One was down to the 1950’s GF relay being rusty. The substation was in the middle of nowhere and not somewhere you’d visit in winter unless you had to so no one noticed the heating wasn’t working. It still tripped on overload.

The other failure was iron dust in the shunt trip coil. The joys of working in a foundry.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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Can someone tell me if a breaker like this has any electronics in it?













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