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    #16
    Originally posted by roger View Post
    What could he site? It could be solved by putting numerous fixtures and single pole switches spaced out the length of the hallway, and if he were trying to use the NEC that wouldn't work because the NEC doesn't require fixtures in hallways or most rooms for that matter.

    Roger
    He doesn't need the NEC, see post 13. Seems like one of those "choose your battles" things.

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      #17
      Originally posted by GerryB View Post
      He doesn't need the NEC, see post 13. Seems like one of those "choose your battles" things.
      I agree with the fact that other building codes have requirements above the NEC hence the question, "What can he cite"? He can't just say he wants something with out having an adopted code to cite and enforce. As far as NFPA 101, no area that I have worked in has adopted it although it is used and noted in many designs.



      Roger
      Moderator

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        #18
        NFPA 101 isn't likely to apply to a dwelling unit. Maybe some chance with common areas on some multifamily units, but probably not within individual dwellings.
        I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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          #19
          Originally posted by infinity View Post
          That would be a local amendment as it is not required under the NEC.
          210.70(A)(2)(3) ?


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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            #20
            Originally posted by brantmacga View Post
            210.70(A)(2)(3) ?


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            That section doesn't exactly require use of three/four way switches, though use of those is one of most common methods to comply.
            I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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              #21
              Originally posted by brantmacga View Post
              210.70(A)(2)(3) ?


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              There is no requirement for a 3-way there.

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                #22
                Originally posted by infinity View Post
                That would be a local amendment as it is not required under the NEC.
                Originally posted by brantmacga View Post
                210.70(A)(2)(3) ?
                As stated below 3-ways is one way to comply with that section but it is not a requirement.

                Originally posted by kwired View Post
                That section doesn't exactly require use of three/four way switches, though use of those is one of most common methods to comply.
                Originally posted by 480sparky View Post
                There is no requirement for a 3-way there.
                I agree.
                Rob

                Moderator

                All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

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                  #23
                  A complete list of ALL the locations in the 2017 where '3-way' actually appears:

                  200.7(C)(1) [use of white conductor].






                  Yep, that's it.

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                    #24
                    2012 Virginia Residential Code:

                    R303.7Stairway illumination.
                    All interior and exterior stairways shall be provided with a means to illuminate the stairs, including the landings and treads. Interior stairways shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of each landing of the stairway. For interior stairs the artificial light sources shall be capable of illuminating treads and landings to levels not less than 1 foot-candle (11 lux) measured at the center of treads and landings. Exterior stairways shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of the top landing of the stairway. Exterior stairways providing access to a basement from the outside grade level shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of the bottom landing of the stairway.

                    Exception: An artificial light source is not required at the top and bottom landing, provided an artificial light source is located directly over each stairway section.

                    R303.7.1Light activation.
                    Where lighting outlets are installed in interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level to control the lighting outlet where the stairway has six or more risers. The illumination of exterior stairways shall be controlled from inside the dwelling unit.

                    Exception: Lights that are continuously illuminated or automatically controlled.



                    OK, so the words "Three Way" are not in there, but the sentiment is....

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Frank DuVal View Post
                      ......
                      OK, so the words "Three Way" are not in there, but the sentiment is....

                      If 'the sentiment' is to require 3-ways, then it would say '3-way'.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Frank DuVal View Post
                        2012 Virginia Residential Code:

                        R303.7Stairway illumination.
                        All interior and exterior stairways shall be provided with a means to illuminate the stairs, including the landings and treads. Interior stairways shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of each landing of the stairway. For interior stairs the artificial light sources shall be capable of illuminating treads and landings to levels not less than 1 foot-candle (11 lux) measured at the center of treads and landings. Exterior stairways shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of the top landing of the stairway. Exterior stairways providing access to a basement from the outside grade level shall be provided with an artificial light source located in the immediate vicinity of the bottom landing of the stairway.

                        Exception: An artificial light source is not required at the top and bottom landing, provided an artificial light source is located directly over each stairway section.

                        R303.7.1Light activation.
                        Where lighting outlets are installed in interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level to control the lighting outlet where the stairway has six or more risers. The illumination of exterior stairways shall be controlled from inside the dwelling unit.

                        Exception: Lights that are continuously illuminated or automatically controlled.



                        OK, so the words "Three Way" are not in there, but the sentiment is....
                        Note that the wall switch, at the minimum, is controlling a SINGLE Lighting Outlet.

                        While it is convenient to control both lighting outlets with a pair of three way switches, the ordinance you quote is not written that way.

                        And, the 1 foot-candle illumination requirement is only necessary to be met when both of the lights are on.

                        Not one word is said about the act of switching on and off of the Lighting Outlets simultaneously from only one switch (of a three way setup.)
                        Another Al in Minnesota

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Frank DuVal View Post
                          Where lighting outlets are installed in interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level to control the lighting outlet where the stairway has six or more risers.
                          This will (admittedly) be pushing the interpretation a bit. But the article talks about controlling the "outlet" (singular). This rule could apply to more than one stairway, but it implies that you have at least 2 switches controlling one lighting outlet at each stairway. This is not far from being a requirement for 3-way switching.

                          Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
                          Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

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                            #28
                            I'm in agreement with youse guys.

                            Most people were too cheap to leave stairway lights on all the time in single family residences (hear your father now, "Turnoff that light!"). So the only minimum expense solution back a few years was three way switches. Hence my sentiment comment. Not required, just common use to satisfy code.

                            Now, however, leaving LED lights on all the time costs little in electricity (but a lot in replacement bulbs...) and occupancy sensors fill in nicely to eliminate three ways if you like.

                            So, anyway you want to pass code is OK!

                            I'll keep installing three ways, my choice.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Frank DuVal View Post

                              I'll keep installing three ways, my choice.
                              Me too.

                              Roger
                              Moderator

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                                #30
                                Keep in mind you only need to install a lighting outlet and no luminaire is required, for a bedroom the light switch location is not specified and could be across the room...as pointed out if you wire a house to the NEC, the homeowner will not be pleased...
                                Moderator-Washington State
                                Ancora Imparo

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