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    #16
    Originally posted by John Wayne View Post
    The house was built in 1989.
    At that time there was no NEC requirement for only one neutral per terminal however, if there is any information in the panel enclosure or on the cover it would apply.

    Roger
    Moderator

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      #17
      Originally posted by roger View Post
      Here's a homework assignment for you, what year did it first show up in the NEC.

      If the HI was trying to say that it was a listing issue he needs to say that and back it up.

      Roger
      Well a HI doesn't really need to back anything up, his job is to write a report of things that may need attention, and owner or purchaser needs to go to an expert to get further information about how to handle what was reported. HI has no authority in forcing any changes to installations, but once they bring something up, some owners owners and or potential purchasers tend to think they must act on any deficiencies reported, when in reality it is just a tool to point out things that need attention and can be used as a way of making agreement on a purchase price, even if none of the suggested deficiencies never get any kind of remedy.
      I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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        #18
        Originally posted by kwired View Post
        Well a HI doesn't really need to back anything up, his job is to write a report of things that may need attention, and owner or purchaser needs to go to an expert to get further information about how to handle what was reported. HI has no authority in forcing any changes to installations, but once they bring something up, some owners owners and or potential purchasers tend to think they must act on any deficiencies reported, when in reality it is just a tool to point out things that need attention and can be used as a way of making agreement on a purchase price, even if none of the suggested deficiencies never get any kind of remedy.
        Okay Capt Obvious, but what about the homework?

        Roger
        Moderator

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          #19
          Originally posted by roger View Post
          Okay Capt Obvious, but what about the homework?

          Roger
          Not going to dig into it right now, best guess is 2005 or 2008.
          I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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            #20
            Originally posted by kwired View Post
            Not going to dig into it right now, best guess is 2005 or 2008.
            Warm.

            Roger
            Moderator

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              #21
              Fight! Fight!
              Master Electrician
              Electrical Contractor
              Richmond, VA

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                #22
                Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
                Duke
                Bwahahahaha. Pure gold!

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by roger View Post
                  What code cycle was in effect when the house was built?

                  Roger
                  Originally posted by roger View Post

                  If the HI was trying to say that it was a listing issue he needs to say that and back it up.

                  Roger

                  Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

                  What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

                  For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

                  For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

                  It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

                  If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

                  It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

                  Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.
                  The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by growler View Post
                    Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

                    What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

                    For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

                    For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

                    It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

                    If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

                    It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

                    Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.
                    When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation, if the buyer, seller, or realtor want's it changed then I would be happy to take the money.

                    As you point out, straightening out a few wires or adding a neutral bar is not a big issue but, HI reports can be a lot more involved than that and with items that are not problems, I will always make sure the person contacting me knows that.

                    I have bought and sold houses so I am aware of how it works on both sides, I made it clear when selling it is "as is".

                    Roger
                    Moderator

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                      #25
                      I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

                      Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                        I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

                        Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk

                        Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.
                        They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                        She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                        I can't help it if I'm lucky

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
                          Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.
                          I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                            I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.

                            I know that I was just getting back to the original thread. While it is fine to do with the equipment grounding conductor some may think it is okay with the neutral. Often times the use of the word ground confuses people as the neutral is a grounded conductor and sometimes a equipment grounding conductor.
                            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                            I can't help it if I'm lucky

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by roger View Post
                              When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation.
                              Originally posted by rjniles View Post
                              2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.
                              The problem here is that a home inspector does not have to site a code violation since a home inspection is not a code inspection.

                              Home inspectors write up anything that they may consider a matter of concern for the future homeowner.

                              Take the example given by rjniles, two conductors under one breaker. You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.

                              I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector). I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.

                              Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
                              The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by growler View Post
                                You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.
                                This is what I don't understand, I've never argued about it, they send me the HI's report, I reply to each line item on a letterhead, I explain which ones are real issues an which ones are not, sometimes with substantiation sometimes without, that's end of story.

                                Originally posted by growler View Post
                                I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector).
                                Same here on both counts.

                                Originally posted by growler View Post
                                I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.
                                When they accept my proposal or rates it's as I said, I'm happy to take the money but they will know what they are paying for real or imagined without arguing.

                                Originally posted by growler View Post
                                Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
                                And that's fine, I will deal with them my way.

                                BTW, I want to make it clear that I do not have a problem with HI's but if they make a false observation on a report I will point it out.

                                Roger
                                Moderator

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