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  • growler
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    So they think I am going to come over and within short time tell them everything is OK or point out a few obvious things that they already figured out need attention and charge maybe $100 and move on.
    I wouldn't even think of doing a home electrical inspection for a $100. Doing a proper home electrical inspection often requires a crawl through an attic and a crawl space. Those are two things I'm not real crazy about. But that's were you find a lot of problems.

    But I don't solicit work inspecting homes because it would be considered a conflict of interest if I were to also do the repairs and I would rather repair items listed by others.

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  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by growler View Post
    The problem here is that a home inspector does not have to site a code violation since a home inspection is not a code inspection. [COLOR=#0000ff]I agree. Some usefulness from electrical perspective is they may find some things that are just deterioration of things rather than possible code violations. Open panel and find melted conductor insulation on incoming line - not really a code to cite, just mention that something is likely failing there and it needs some attention.
    [/COLOR]

    Home inspectors write up anything that they may consider a matter of concern for the future homeowner.

    Take the example given by rjniles, two conductors under one breaker. You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.

    I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector). I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.

    Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
    Thing I run into is there isn't any "home inspectors" out here where I live. Realtors sometimes call me asking for an electrical inspection on a home they are involved with. My guess most the time is potential buyer has concerns, and they want to call in an expert, this puts more liability on me and I hate doing it, and usually tell them I don't have the time to do it even if things are pretty slow. They probably only want some things to use for price negotiating and may not even intend to fix much if anything that I do comment about. But at same time I don't want to not be thorough and miss even a small thing that might come back to haunt me. So they think I am going to come over and within short time tell them everything is OK or point out a few obvious things that they already figured out need attention and charge maybe $100 and move on.

    I don't want to do that. A HI can get away with that easier, he is an expert at nothing but I am an expert at electrical - I miss something and someone is injured or killed because of something that was existing when I was there I will be blamed if I didn't mention it. I need at least a couple hours to inspect and at least another hour or two to write up my findings, part of which will also state that since a lot of wiring is concealed I can not accurately tell what condition it is in without destructive measures being taken to investigate.

    Buying a used house is like buying a used car - you can't expect everything to be in perfect condition and certainly can't expect everything to comply with standards that are being met in a new house. There are practices that maybe were common at different times even though they were not complaint with codes at the time. It happens. All you can do with those is mention this fact and it is up to those reading the report to decide how they want to proceed with that information.

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  • roger
    replied
    Originally posted by growler View Post
    You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.
    This is what I don't understand, I've never argued about it, they send me the HI's report, I reply to each line item on a letterhead, I explain which ones are real issues an which ones are not, sometimes with substantiation sometimes without, that's end of story.

    Originally posted by growler View Post
    I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector).
    Same here on both counts.

    Originally posted by growler View Post
    I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.
    When they accept my proposal or rates it's as I said, I'm happy to take the money but they will know what they are paying for real or imagined without arguing.

    Originally posted by growler View Post
    Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
    And that's fine, I will deal with them my way.

    BTW, I want to make it clear that I do not have a problem with HI's but if they make a false observation on a report I will point it out.

    Roger

    Leave a comment:


  • growler
    replied
    Originally posted by roger View Post
    When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation.
    Originally posted by rjniles View Post
    2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.
    The problem here is that a home inspector does not have to site a code violation since a home inspection is not a code inspection.

    Home inspectors write up anything that they may consider a matter of concern for the future homeowner.

    Take the example given by rjniles, two conductors under one breaker. You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.

    I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector). I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.

    Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis Alwon
    replied
    Originally posted by rjniles View Post
    I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.

    I know that I was just getting back to the original thread. While it is fine to do with the equipment grounding conductor some may think it is okay with the neutral. Often times the use of the word ground confuses people as the neutral is a grounded conductor and sometimes a equipment grounding conductor.

    Leave a comment:


  • rjniles
    replied
    Originally posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.
    I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis Alwon
    replied
    Originally posted by rjniles View Post
    I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

    Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk

    Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.

    Leave a comment:


  • rjniles
    replied
    I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

    Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • roger
    replied
    Originally posted by growler View Post
    Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

    What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

    For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

    For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

    It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

    If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

    It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

    Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.
    When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation, if the buyer, seller, or realtor want's it changed then I would be happy to take the money.

    As you point out, straightening out a few wires or adding a neutral bar is not a big issue but, HI reports can be a lot more involved than that and with items that are not problems, I will always make sure the person contacting me knows that.

    I have bought and sold houses so I am aware of how it works on both sides, I made it clear when selling it is "as is".

    Roger

    Leave a comment:


  • growler
    replied
    Originally posted by roger View Post
    What code cycle was in effect when the house was built?

    Roger
    Originally posted by roger View Post

    If the HI was trying to say that it was a listing issue he needs to say that and back it up.

    Roger

    Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

    What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

    For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

    For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

    It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

    If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

    It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

    Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon456
    replied
    Originally posted by LarryFine View Post
    Duke
    Bwahahahaha. Pure gold!

    Leave a comment:


  • LarryFine
    replied
    Fight! Fight!

    Leave a comment:


  • roger
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Not going to dig into it right now, best guess is 2005 or 2008.
    Warm.

    Roger

    Leave a comment:


  • kwired
    replied
    Originally posted by roger View Post
    Okay Capt Obvious, but what about the homework?

    Roger
    Not going to dig into it right now, best guess is 2005 or 2008.

    Leave a comment:


  • roger
    replied
    Originally posted by kwired View Post
    Well a HI doesn't really need to back anything up, his job is to write a report of things that may need attention, and owner or purchaser needs to go to an expert to get further information about how to handle what was reported. HI has no authority in forcing any changes to installations, but once they bring something up, some owners owners and or potential purchasers tend to think they must act on any deficiencies reported, when in reality it is just a tool to point out things that need attention and can be used as a way of making agreement on a purchase price, even if none of the suggested deficiencies never get any kind of remedy.
    Okay Capt Obvious, but what about the homework?

    Roger

    Leave a comment:

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