POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

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I know this is mostly an East coast message board, but I thought I'd try it anyway.

I need a referral to somebody that can do a meaningful power quality survey in a suite of a multi-story commercial office building in downtown San Francisco.

It's a 1906 vintage building and has been remodeled constantly.

Bonus points if this somebody can do an EMF study too. Of course it's 3-phase. Harmonics are one aspect to look at.

Please post the information here so other interested parties can benefit from the referral(s). I'm expecting that documenting any power irregularities in this building will be of interest to the dozens of other tenants.

[Even if you do not have a referral, I would appreciate hearing any tailgate stories of power quality issues, their impact, and their resolution].

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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

I deleted this message myself.Poor taste

[ May 08, 2004, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Wayne,
Usually a request for a power quality survey is based on a complaint, problem, or unusual measurement.

What is the basis for the request?

Karl
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

All shameless plugs or helpful replies are appreciated.

This building goes through a lot of light bulbs and has barbecued a fair amount of electronic equipment over the years. Also, the UPS APC-SU-1000NET is reacting to dirty power. The dirty power sensor is set to lowest sensitivity put it has squawked a few times which means either the power is too dirty or the UPS dirty power sensor is faulty. When the dirty power sensor kicks in it puts the protected device on battery power, and if the power does not clean up in time, the battery goes dead and the device shuts down. Then the UPS starts squawking (literally) until it's reset.

:)

Link to sensitivity settings for APC Smart-UPS

../Wayne C.

[ May 07, 2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Going through light bulbs usually would mean a bad neutral connection, which as you must know results in the change of phase voltages. As for UPS antics I can't help.

Karl
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

You are experiencing a Level II, common mode outage on one phase. Level II studies are extremely complex and time consuming

This event calls for specialized equipment and personnel. Consult San Francisco University Electrical Professor, used to be Dr.John Katsafrakis.
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Thanks for that. Any further contact info on the Professor?

I have to assume this building suffers from, Normal Mode Impulses and Ringing, Transients, Sags, Overvoltages, Outage, Harmonics, Common Mode Disturbances, and Normal Mode Noise.

Can you say more to Level II? Thanks.
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Have heard the term "dirty power" used before ,I do not understand what it means.

In one instance a fellow told me get got hit with dirty power on energize neutral 120v line and it hurt really bad, worse than a 120v on the hot side,
This is what he said and we all hear alot of things that we do not understand .......I question if what he told me was legit but kept the question in my head along with my mouth closed........you know how this goes.

I have heard other people use the term "dirty power" and to be honest I think a lot of people use it as a slang term or use it without the understanding of it.
Again......I would appreciate what the meaning of this term really means cause I simply just do not know how it is applied .

Thanks John
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Originally posted by drg:
I have heard other people use the term "dirty power" and to be honest I think a lot of people use it as a slang term or use it without the understanding of it.
John I am like you I hear that term used but have doubts that there is one true definition of dirty power.

As far as neutrals hurting more than hots I have heard people say that and I have never believed it, it is not logical.
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Dirty power is slang and I'm purposely using it to be nebulous about the exact issue. I am using Dirty Power as an umbrella to cover:
Normal Mode Impulses and Ringing, Transients, Sags, Overvoltages, Outage, Harmonics, Common Mode Disturbances, and Normal Mode Noise,

To Bennie: It may be buildingwide or citywide, but for starters I'm only concerned with the suite that my client occupies. My suspicion is that it's at least buildingwide.

There are four elevators too, and I'm assuming they have DC motors.
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Bob , thanks for that ..that is very important that you posted that.

Wayne you used a couple more words that I don't understand but have to rush right now .

Thanks for replies and at least for now that when co-workers are blathering on about dirty power and their experience with it that I am not the only one who does not understand this.......and a lot of other things as we go..........got to run but thanks again for the replies....will check back in later today.

john :)
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

The term dirty power is a slang term, with no technical logic. Stick to approved names of events and the solution will be easier to solve.

Hire a competant power quality testing lab to check this system, or call the building department for a slum lord declaration.
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Thanks guys,

John :)

Wayne . Nebulous ?? Quit making me get my dictionary out to follow your posts.
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

I am thankful for all helpful replies. Keep them coming!
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Most electrical testing companies will have an technician on board and the equipment to monitor and resolve PQ issues. If they do not have PQ tech they may be able to refer you to one.

Owning or renting the equipment is not enough one should versed in utilizing the equipmnent, inteuppting the results and trouble shooting.
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

Very good information Brian. Our infrastructure is going along with me, it's breaking down, as a result of decomposing.

I encourage the many readers, of this forum to contact the Mike Holt Enterprises for information on power quality and it's need for correction in the future. It will be a growing enterprise.

If I had time, I would enlist Karl and most others on this board, to study the developing problem from a user perspective.

Bennie R. Palmer
Milwaukie, Oregon
 
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Guest

Guest
Re: POWER QUALITY SURVEY needed in San Francisco area.

How do PQ testing companies calculate their pricing?

What are the procedures?

What about EMF testing pricing?

What are the procedures? What is the workflow for the testing company?

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