Tesla Charger Receptacle

[growler]

In the instructions for installing the receptacle it say to use a "high quality industrial grade receptacle".

I bid an install over the phone and was planning on using a Leviton Industrial grade receptacle. It's probably not all the high a quality but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a Hubble.

What brand of receptacle do any of you use? 14-50 R

 

[Hv&Lv]

In the instructions for installing the receptacle it say to use a "high quality industrial grade receptacle".

I bid an install over the phone and was planning on using a Leviton Industrial grade receptacle. It's probably not all the high a quality but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a Hubble.

What brand of receptacle do any of you use? 14-50 R

I’ve only put in three of these charger outlets.(not Tesla, chargers for other brand cars. My clientele can’t afford Tesla...:lol
One I direct wired because it was beside the outdoor panel.
the other two I used an industrial grade outlet.
doesn't industrial grade = high grade?
I think Leviton is what I used. The supply house keeps a lot of Leviton stuff...

 

[curt swartz]

I only use Legrand since that is what my main suppliers sells and I have contract pricing for. I can't stand Leviton's newer design of large power receptacles with rear wire entry but don't have an issue with them if someone else is installing it.

I don't think any manufacture makes multiple grades of 14-50 receptacles like they do with the low amp devices. Your fine with any of the name brand (Legrand, Leviton, Eaton, Hubble) receptacles.

 

[growler]

Folks the only reason I ask is that Tesla has a new charging cable that the customer plugs into the receptacle and then the car. They can easily unplug and take it with them if they wish.

I was reading about it and some people worry that repeated plugging and unplugging may wear the receptacle out if not of the best quality.

When I have hooked up regular chargers that just get plugged in and usually remain so I really wasn't concerned that the receptacle could wear out.

Doesn't industrial grade = high quality ? You wold think so but there certainly are a wide range of prices.

It never hurts to ask if others have had any problems with a specific product that's been used for a specific use.

 

[curt swartz]

Folks the only reason I ask is that Tesla has a new charging cable that the customer plugs into the receptacle and then the car. They can easily unplug and take it with them if they wish.

All Tesla cars have always come with a mobile charging cable. The Gen2 mobile cable that is currently included with the cars has a standard 5-15 adapter. You can purchase various adapters for the cable including the most common 14-50 adapter. The Gen2 mobile charging cable has a maximum charge rate of 32 amps with a 14-50, 10-50 or 6-50 adapter. Tesla did come out with a new mobile charging cable which must be purchased separately. It has a factory installed 14-50 plug and no options for adapters. This cable will charge at 40 amps vs 32 for the Gen2 cable.

In reality very few people take their charge cable with them. They either charge at home or at charging stations where the cable is not needed. Maybe if they have a second home or visit someone frequently that has a spare 14-50 receptacle. Even in that case they will most likely buy a second cable to avoid having to take the cable with them all the time.

Tesla's are a common commodity where I live/work. You can't drive more that a couple blocks without seeing one or more. I would bet that 99.999% of all the mobile charging cables are connected to either a Leviton or Legrand 14-50 receptacle.

 

[growler]

Tesla's are a common commodity where I live/work. You can't drive more that a couple blocks without seeing one or more. I would bet that 99.999% of all the mobile charging cables are connected to either a Leviton or Legrand 14-50 receptacle.

Thanks that's the type of comment I was looking for. There are lots of opinions stated at various sites about things that can possibly go wrong but real world results are what counts.

 

[Cletis]

Has anyone other than me noticed that people that are buying a Tesla and need electrician to hook it up are a pain in the ass and cheapo's ? or is it just me? I mean I just had one guy who had to get 3 bids and one was $70 less than mine so he took his. I think it was like $730 vs $800

 

[retirede]

Has anyone other than me noticed that people that are buying a Tesla and need electrician to hook it up are a pain in the ass and cheapo's ? or is it just me? I mean I just had one guy who had to get 3 bids and one was $70 less than mine so he took his. I think it was like $730 vs $800

If you were paying to get some work done and could pay either $730 or $800 for the same work, which would you choose? Does that make you a “cheapo”?

 

[growler]

If you were paying to get some work done and could pay either $730 or $800 for the same work, which would you choose? Does that make you a “cheapo”?

Both of those quotes are in the same ball park. I see no reason for the customer to get suspicious as to why one is a little cheaper. If the customer calls around until they get a quote for $400 I would wonder about the decision.

 

[Cletis]

If you were paying to get some work done and could pay either $730 or $800 for the same work, which would you choose? Does that make you a “cheapo”?

Well, the difference is other guy who speedwired houses now thinks he is electrician no license 1 yr in business and he isnt running 1 size larger to account for voltage drop and who knows what else. Cheapest wins again like were a commodity


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[curt swartz]

Well, the difference is other guy who speedwired houses now thinks he is electrician no license 1 yr in business and he isnt running 1 size larger to account for voltage drop and who knows what else. Cheapest wins again like were a commodity


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For the small difference in price the HO is dumb to choose someone that has no license/insurance.

I don't see a need to automatically go 1 size larger for voltage drop. I can't imagine the run is very long with a ~$800 install price. It would also be a code violation if you are using NM cable since the EGC would be undersized.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Well, the difference is other guy who speedwired houses now thinks he is electrician no license 1 yr in business and he isnt running 1 size larger to account for voltage drop and who knows what else. Cheapest wins again like were a commodity


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If he is beating you out and isn’t licensed/insured, I’m sure your licensing board and it AHJ would like to know.
Also, if his install causes a fire or other claim against homeowners insurance, they better not find out it wasn’t inspected.

 

[Hv&Lv]

For the small difference in price the HO is dumb to choose someone that has no license/insurance.

I don't see a need to automatically go 1 size larger for voltage drop. I can't imagine the run is very long with a ~$800 install price. It would also be a code violation if you are using NM cable since the EGC would be undersized.

I’ve never understood that either. I have had what I think are good electricians tell me for every 100’ to go up one size for drop.
They tell me I don’t understand voltage drop...
I don’t argue, it isn’t my job they are wiring...

 

[ramsy]

1) Definitely 1-size larger for continuous load.

2) Perhaps 1-size up, for Level-2 charger voltage drop > 3% beyond 200ft

3) Perhaps 1-size up, for Power-Factor adjustments: See below

Similar to microwave ovens, the PF of the typical full-wave rectifier with capacitor filter in power supplies is around 0.6. This results in a measured current that is 1.67 times over that which is doing useful work! Power formula (pf) P/I*R

A 50 A branch circuit on 240 VAC mains loaded to the NEC-allowed limit of 80% can safely supply 9,600 W. An EV charger without PFC (so a PF of 0.6) would max that branch circuit out at 5,760 W, because at that point it would be drawing current equivalent to a 9,600 W charger with a PF of 1!
https://chargedevs.com/features/a-closer-look-at-power-factor-correction/

In California Pf for battery chargers are regulated by KW rating. Pf = 0.9 if > 2kw
https://www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/IOTA_Tech_PFC in Battery Chargers.pdf

A 9600 Watt car charger @ 0.6 Pf, purchased on Amazon.com without State regulations, draws 16000 Watts or 66 Amps of input power, solved for demand load (P/I*R) / pf.

 

[GeorgeB]

My first thought is that the charger will consume more power than any other home load ... excepting resistance heat. Then I decided to try to quantify that.

Electrical equivalent is about 30 kWh per gallon; ASSUME 1200 gallons / year, 100 gallons / month, 3000 kWh / month, ROUGHLY 3 times average home consumption ... so definitely a very high load. I'd think larger wire, VD reduced to less than 1% from 3%(?) would be significant savings. 1% savings in VD would be 30 kWh / month, maybe $3 / month, $36 / year. What's the wire cost increase from #6 to #4 aluminum for (WAG) 100 feet? A quick look on amazon suggests $.03/conductor/foot ... 10 cents / foot for 3 conductors, $10 for the 100 feet. Less than 6 months payback. That sounds pretty good to me.

What am I missing? Hey, I'm a 70 year old retired pretend engineer, not an electrician.

 

[Hv&Lv]

1) Definitely 1-size larger for continuous load.

I agree with this, it’s an NEC requirement

2) Perhaps 1-size up, for Level-2 charger voltage drop > 3% beyond 200ft

Level 2 is up to 40 amp I believe. Maybe...depending on my calculations. Haven’t seen many home charging units that long.
I’ve only installed three. One was beside the panel. Other two were within 40’.

3) Perhaps 1-size up, for Power-Factor adjustments: See below

PF in the NEC only refers to motors now was my understanding(synchronous type), barring some tips in 220 and 430. Not sure it’s in 625 at all. Wouldn’t consider it.
Knowing my luck, If I considered it and upped my wire size, someone will come along and beat my price...:lol:
you see a laughing emoji, but It’s happened to many of us. How many have said “ I won’t figure it that way again”...

 

[wwhitney]

Electric cars get on the order of 4.0 miles/kWh if you're driving 75 mph and under. Meaning a car driven 1,000 miles/month would need 250 kWh/month. That's battery-to-wheels, we need to include a factor of 1.1 or 1.2 for conversion losses to get wall-to-wheels. So we're at about 300 kWh/month for 1,000 miles/month.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[retirede]

Well, the difference is other guy who speedwired houses now thinks he is electrician no license 1 yr in business and he isnt running 1 size larger to account for voltage drop and who knows what else. Cheapest wins again like were a commodity


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You didn’t say anything initially about the other guy’s lack of credentials or running undersized conductors.

Would the homeowner be aware or even understand the difference?

 

[ramsy]

Level 2 is up to 40 amp I believe. ..Haven’t seen many home charging units that long..

Roger that, for VD near 3%, detached garage must be > 200ft from the main electrical service. Never heard of such a hike in residential.

PF in the NEC only refers to motors now was my understanding(synchronous type), barring some tips in 220 and 430. Not sure it’s in 625..

The NEC can ignore Power factor, if car charger name-plate Watts are standardized on Apparent power Watts=Volts*Amps, rather than Real power Watts=Volts*Amps*Pf.

In that case the miles per kWh would not be entirely reliable, if using charger name-plate Watts based on Apparent power.

4.0 miles/kWh would be 4.0*Pf miles/kWh.
Pf of 0.6 x 4.0 miles is 2.4 miles/kWh.
4 Apparent miles/kWh = 2.4 Real miles/kWh

 

[wwhitney]

These things we are calling chargers in this thread are properly called EVSEs. They are just smart switches, they provide two AC lines plus a pilot signal advertising how much current is available. The battery charger itself is in the EV, it is supposed to obey the pilot signal and not draw more current than advertised. The system also includes a mechanism so that when you push the EVSE handle to disengage it, the car is to stop charging before you pull the plug out. That prevents disconnecting the plug under load.

Cheers, Wayne