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Have LED Lighting Been Accepted By Design Pro's Yet

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    #16
    Originally posted by mgookin View Post
    One more definite advantage of LEDs for outdoor illumination in some situations is that they can be remotely dimmed and that the small size of the light emitting components and lower heat production
    Heat and infrared heat can be a real good thing. Forget which city it was in Wisconsin a few years back installed LED's in all their traffic lights. Winter came along and the lights iced up and blocked the lights because there was no heat to keep the snow and ice off them. They had to remove all of them and go back to incandescent. Do not have the time to search, but I read it here when someone posted a link to the story. Not going to swear to it but I think it might have been Don one of our moderators.
    Last edited by dereckbc; 09-20-13, 06:30 PM.

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      #17
      Originally posted by jcbabb View Post
      RC, not to derail the thread here, but can you qualify this statement? I find (in general) that when overall costs are figured, the the T8 often outperforms the T5. Especially when you consider the difference in lamp costs alone, the T8 is hard to beat.

      I just wonder if you have info that I don't have that makes you believe the T5 to be the better value.
      ------------------------------------

      Lately I have used many T5HO. Cuts down on the quantify of fixtures even in an office. Fewer fixtures = less cost, less installation labor. Also, the new T5HO's have lifetimes up to 40,000 hours. Lumens per watt are up to 90 L/W. The newer indirect, linear fixtures have efficiencies over 90%. Yes, sometimes the high efficiency fixtures cost more, but they pay for themselves. An every client for whom I used them absolutely loves the quality of light.

      For large industrial, warehouse, etc. areas, you just can't beat 4, 6, or 8 lamp T5HO fixtures. Don't need near as many as even HID.

      JMHO

      RC
      It's my name going on that drawing, not yours. If what you want ain't right, it ain't going on the drawings!

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        #18
        Yes, more are considering and using them. Commercial display case lighting, track lights in retail, walk ways, street lighting, wall sconces ect are taking over with LED technology and so far so good.
        Our comedian shamelessly joked about a blackout. Talk about dark humor.

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          #19
          Originally posted by weressl View Post
          Yep they did drink the Kool-Aid.
          Well, we maybe there yet....

          At least as far as the petrochem industry goes.

          It appears that the latest development by Eaton(Crouse-Hinds) of their newly redesigned fixture, using new driver and LED engine is a paradigm shifter. Combined life expectancy is 104,000 hours and that is based on the premise of 40C operation and driver failure. LED L70 is @ 174,000, so lumen depreciation has also drastically improved.

          I used their calculator for a sample, medium size project for 250 LED fixtures and low labor and electricity rates, and the ROI was 0.4 years.

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            #20
            Originally posted by weressl View Post
            Well, we maybe there yet....

            At least as far as the petrochem industry goes.

            It appears that the latest development by Eaton(Crouse-Hinds) of their newly redesigned fixture, using new driver and LED engine is a paradigm shifter. Combined life expectancy is 104,000 hours and that is based on the premise of 40C operation and driver failure. LED L70 is @ 174,000, so lumen depreciation has also drastically improved.

            I used their calculator for a sample, medium size project for 250 LED fixtures and low labor and electricity rates, and the ROI was 0.4 years.
            If C-H's got things truly together and lifetimes come close to claimed together, Haz areas definitely could see an improvement. 40C may be low for process areas, 50C may be more realistic. What is the lifetime for 50C? The "ouch" will be in replacing bad LED's or drivers. Hopefully one can reuse the fixture and not have to replace it, that would be a killer!

            RC
            It's my name going on that drawing, not yours. If what you want ain't right, it ain't going on the drawings!

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
              ------------------------------------

              Lately I have used many T5HO. Cuts down on the quantify of fixtures even in an office. Fewer fixtures = less cost, less installation labor. Also, the new T5HO's have lifetimes up to 40,000 hours. Lumens per watt are up to 90 L/W. The newer indirect, linear fixtures have efficiencies over 90%. Yes, sometimes the high efficiency fixtures cost more, but they pay for themselves. An every client for whom I used them absolutely loves the quality of light.

              For large industrial, warehouse, etc. areas, you just can't beat 4, 6, or 8 lamp T5HO fixtures. Don't need near as many as even HID.

              JMHO

              RC
              RC,

              Thanks for the info. I would not have thought offices were a good application for the HO's because of the brightness. Good to know that your clients are happy with that as I would have expected otherwise.

              I absolutely agree with you on the high bays.

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                #22
                Originally posted by weressl View Post
                Well, we maybe there yet....

                At least as far as the petrochem industry goes.

                It appears that the latest development by Eaton(Crouse-Hinds) of their newly redesigned fixture, using new driver and LED engine is a paradigm shifter. Combined life expectancy is 104,000 hours and that is based on the premise of 40C operation and driver failure. LED L70 is @ 174,000, so lumen depreciation has also drastically improved.

                I used their calculator for a sample, medium size project for 250 LED fixtures and low labor and electricity rates, and the ROI was 0.4 years.
                Can you provide a link or model number for this fixture?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by jcbabb View Post
                  I would not have thought offices were a good application for the HO's because of the brightness. Good to know that your clients are happy with that as I would have expected otherwise.
                  Best if the fixture is designed to diffuse and spread the light. In that case the concentrated brightness of the bulb itself is not an issue.
                  If you use fewer luminaires the dispersion angle of each has to be higher with an office ceiling.

                  Originally posted by Ragin Cajun
                  ... The newer indirect, linear fixtures...

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                    #24
                    It has to be accepted by everyone whether a design pro or whoever, the effect of LED is so good that you cannot resist the effect.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by jcbabb View Post
                      Can you provide a link or model number for this fixture?
                      Look at the LED mini-site provided via the C-H website. The operational data is NOT updated, so none of the data I was referring to shown there, but the C-H sales engineer had these in a presentation and I was confident that he has the data to back it up. I guess the marketing campaign is lagging, but the fixture is shipping out this month. It is the new VMV series, 5 sizes up to 400W HID equivalent.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Ragin Cajun View Post
                        If C-H's got things truly together and lifetimes come close to claimed together, Haz areas definitely could see an improvement. 40C may be low for process areas, 50C may be more realistic. What is the lifetime for 50C? The "ouch" will be in replacing bad LED's or drivers. Hopefully one can reuse the fixture and not have to replace it, that would be a killer!

                        RC
                        They have the data for the 50C rating as well, and it is also improved, the lumen depreciation curve had a slight slope not as drastic as before. but realistically speaking that would ONLY exist in enclosed or non-ventilated areas which would make it Cl. I, Div.1 areas and these fixtures are for Div. 2 locations. 50C would also make it OSHA prohibitive for human occupancy, therefore illumination would not be required .

                        Let me also add that I believe that the test is conducted AT continuous 50C exposure or the equivalent elevated temperature, and not a normal day-night and summer/winter cycles, so the life expectancy can be even higher.

                        The drive IS replaceable, I am not so sure about the light engine itself as it is located under a sealed glass.
                        Last edited by weressl; 09-21-13, 03:54 AM.

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