Led dimmer issues residential application

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Ssantos

Member
Location
Plymouth, ma
The typical layout is a 4" or 5" recessed can
(view lite)
(next wave)
I will usually run a home run for 2 bedrooms supplying power to lighting and outlet loads resulting in anywhere from 4-8 recessed on a circuit.

I have tried a combination of Lutron and Leviton led dimmers with all the available be 30's in Home Depot. Every single house I finish I run into the same problem, buzzing bulbs. I am getting full range dimming but the buzz is constant.

I understand a elv dimmer may fix the problem but I have had trouble finding one in a toggle style not to mention just finding one period outside of a supply house. I prefer to do my business with a supply house but that's not always an action. I want to be able to figure out why the phase cutting dimmer isn't working.

Im guessing I'm not the only person who has ran into these troubles, any input would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
 
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gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160830-1657 EDT

From the article I referenced above:


Phase-cut dimmers
Two different types of phase-cut dimmer exist (Fig. 1). Leading-edge dimmers delay the firing angle after the zero crossing, cutting out the initial portion of the AC half-cycle and conducting the end portion. Trailing-edge dimmers operate in the opposite manner, conducting the initial portion of the AC half-cycle and cutting out the end portion. Leading-edge dimmers can be built with only a single active component — the triac — making them very inexpensive, thus their dominance in the North American market.
Click to expand...
I suggest that you try a "trailing-edge" and see if that reduces the noise. Do bench testing first. This starts conduction at a voltage zero crossing, or as soon as the source voltage exceeds the capacitor voltage on the capacitor input filter in the LED
 
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Ssantos

Member
Location
Plymouth, ma
I have tried using next wave, halo,view lite commercial electric you name it, 4-5" I have tried the retro fit trims as well an have had some better luck with those. I will have to look into the dimmers mentioned above, thank you everyone for the input.
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Hey what are those things on the Supply wire adapters. I have installed those lights before and not seen those.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
Ssantos said:
Im guessing I'm not the only person who has ran into these troubles, any input would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
Click to expand...

no, you aren't special. sorry.

i'm using DMF line dimmable LED's in my house,
with Lutron Diva C-L DVCL-153P dimmers.

zero noise, but they are an expensive LED element,
relatively speaking. if you are using the really cheap
home desperate LED's, they may sing no matter what.
 
G

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160901-2034 EDT

Ssantos:

I bought a new Lutron CTCL-153PDH-WH dimmer and a box of CREE 9.35 W 120 V made in China bulbs labeled dimmable.

I classify phase shift dimmers into two categories, I may have to change to three, for the purpose of how power is obtained to operate the dimmer electronics. This does not relate to whether it is leading or trailing for for load current conduction.

For good operation of this dimmer it requires that the green wire be connected to the circuit EGC. This comment does not relate to safety, but to circuit opeartion. Safety is discussed in the instructions. From a circuit function perspective the Lutron green wire could go to either EGC or the circuit neutral.

Good operation means the dimmer has a consistent firing angle for turn on of the Triac. This is a Triac type dimmer. With this three wire connection I can set the dimmer to its most dimmed position, and have a very monentary loss of power or much longer and upon reapplication of power the bulb will turn on again at its previous dimming level.

I had expected a fair amount of current flow on the green wire to supply energy to power the dimmer electronics, but I only measured about 0.000,2/220 = 1 microampere. Thus, it appears that energy for the electronics is via the series path with the load.

In my quick bench tests I had no noise from the LED. I have not run more extensive tests on the dimmer and phase angles. Nor did I try any tests with the green wire disconnected.

Glad you have apparently solved your problem.

.
 
G

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160902-1038 EDT

Correction to my previous comment. The C-L dimmer is not a three wire dimmer as I had expected from the early experiments.

When the load is changed the phase angles of turn on and off shift relative to the AC voltage zero crossings, but the on time seems about constant.

With two possible loads, the 9.3 W Cree and a 100 W incandescent, the intensity of the Cree changes as the 100 W incandrescent is switched on and off.

Changing to my real three wire dimmer, requires a neutral connection, there is no change in the LED output between on and off of the 100 W incandescent, and no change in the turn on phase shift relative to the AC voltage zero crossing. Back when I bought this dimmer it was $50 to $60. This is also a Triac dimmer.

.
 
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