Outdoor/Weatherproof CL2 power supply??

[nhfire77]

Anyone have a recommendation for a line voltage powered power supply with the following characteristics-

120VAC input (hardwired, Not cord and plug)
12 or 24VDC output (load is less than 1A)
Class 2 or 3 output
NRTL listing
Rated for -20C to 60C or greater
Weatherproof enclosure

Everything I find is RU, but I don’t need a full 508a panel, just a power supply for a UL listed relay and put the two together in separate enclosures (outdoors) or the same, either way.

 

[hbiss]

I don't understand. If you are going to put a relay (obviously not outdoor/weatherproof) in a weatherproof enclosure why does the power supply need to be weatherproof if you can put it in the same enclosure?

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

I don't understand. If you are going to put a relay (obviously not outdoor/weatherproof) in a weatherproof enclosure why does the power supply need to be weatherproof if you can put it in the same enclosure?

-Hal

Fair question. The power supply doesn’t need to be weatherproof per se but, does need to be rated for high/low temps. The relay is listed for extended temp operation. I will use a a NEMA 4X enclosure to house it.

I have found plenty of power supplies that fit this description except they are not UL listed (only 508a, I’m not building an industrial panel, it’s a building control/automation application)

 

[hbiss]

I think your bigger problem is finding something that will withstand 140 deg F or greater. Putting it in an enclosure and you might as well be putting it in an oven. Why can't this setup be located in a location with more reasonable temperatures?

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

this one goes down to -10 C

http://www.pulspower.com/fileadmin/Dateien/pdf/ml15e241.pdf

 

[hbiss]

And +60c. I stand corrected. It's also UL listed.

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

I think your bigger problem is finding something that will withstand 140 deg F or greater. Putting it in an enclosure and you might as well be putting it in an oven. Why can't this setup be located in a location with more reasonable temperatures?

-Hal

It’s an island essentially. A gas grill 100’ from a building with a single 120v feed. They want control of it. (How is via a 120v gas solenoid-done by plumber, they don’t make a low voltage version. We have to use a programmable power limited controller. Can’t get anything inside

 

[nhfire77]

this one goes down to -10 C

http://www.pulspower.com/fileadmin/Dateien/pdf/ml15e241.pdf

Thanks I need one that goes lower than that like -20c or so

 

[hbiss]

Does it absolutely have to be DC?

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

Does it absolutely have to be DC?

-Hal

Actually no! 24VAC (class2) will work.

But I think I finally found a DC one. What did you find? https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/rhinopsbc1d2.pdf

 

[hbiss]

Looks good. Remember that only the PSB24-060S-P is CL2. But that should be more than enough to operate a relay. I don't know what kind of controller you will be using, but install that in the same WP cabinet and you really don't need to care about CL2.

-Hal
[h=1][/h]

 

[nhfire77]

Looks good. Remember that only the PSB24-060S-P is CL2. But that should be more than enough to operate a relay. I don't know what kind of controller you will be using, but install that in the same WP cabinet and you really don't need to care about CL2.

-Hal
[h=1][/h]

Got it.

The power supply is to power a stand-alone card reader/keypad, that needs CL2 power. The one thing I am now realizing is that the card reader/keypad doesn’t have a long enough output and can’t find one with an adjustable timer (that is hardened). I need to find a timer/relay so that when the keypad output triggers the relay to close the gas valve, the relay will stay latched for 30+ minutes. You wouldnt happen to know of a relay, timer or timed relay that is hardened (good for -20C to 60C) would you?

 

[hbiss]

The power supply is to power a stand-alone card reader/keypad, that needs CL2 power.

Just so you know, something doesn't need CL2 power. The CL2 is determined by the power supply which in turn dictates what wiring method you can use. A utilization device may need say 24VDC but there is nothing to prohibit it coming from a Class 1 source as long as the device is capable of handling the current.

-Hal

 

[GoldDigger]

Just so you know, something doesn't need CL2 power. The CL2 is determined by the power supply which in turn dictates what wiring method you can use. A utilization device may need say 24VDC but there is nothing to prohibit it coming from a Class 1 source as long as the device is capable of handling the current.

-Hal

Quite to the contrary, a utilization device may be tested and listed only for use with a limited power source. The wiring can be CL2 or Chapter 3, but the source has to be limited.
Among other things, this is why you cannot always reclassify a Class 2 circuit as Class 1, use Chapter 3 wiring and share a raceway with power wiring. For that to work the utilization equipment must also be listed for use with a Class 1 supply.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[hbiss]

I suppose it depends on the type of equipment you are looking at, but I never saw any requirements beyond the required voltage listed in any specs for access control or other LV equipment I deal with.

Here are the specs for a Cobra Controls CC-3800-EM Water Proof Proximity Access Card Reader and Keypad that I just Googled at random:

Technical Specifications:

Work Voltage:12V-24VDC
Static Current:<=30mA

Reading Range:3-8cm
Capacity: 2000 users
Ambient Temperature:-45C to 60C
Ambient Humidity:10%-90%
Electricity lock output:<=3A
Alarm output:<=20A
Output short circuit protection time:<=100uS
Open time:0 - 99 seconds (adjustable)



-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

Just so you know, something doesn't need CL2 power. The CL2 is determined by the power supply which in turn dictates what wiring method you can use. A utilization device may need say 24VDC but there is nothing to prohibit it coming from a Class 1 source as long as the device is capable of handling the current.

-Hal

I understand what you’re saying and in certain cases we can do that in this case a class to circuit is required for the equipment and installation Parameters.

If this was an industrial setting it wouldn’t be as important but this is a commercial and residential scenario

 

[hbiss]

I would like to see what you are using that says CL2 on it because I have never seen that.

That key pad/card swipe above is a good example and it's nothing that isn't used in residential.

As for the not being able to reclassify CL2 as Class 1 wiring, that has to do with the voltage differential possible between the two. Voltage being equal, what difference would it make if you mixed CL2 with Class 1. Only that Class 1 can encompass much higher voltages than CL2 or 3 and it can't be left to the installer to make that call, so the NEC says you can't reclassify, period.

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

I would like to see what you are using that says CL2 on it because I have never seen that.

That key pad/card swipe above is a good example and it's nothing that isn't used in residential.

As for the not being able to reclassify CL2 as Class 1 wiring, that has to do with the voltage differential possible between the two. Voltage being equal, what difference would it make if you mixed CL2 with Class 1. Only that Class 1 can encompass much higher voltages than CL2 or 3 and it can't be left to the installer to make that call, so the NEC says you can't reclassify, period.

-Hal

All power limited electronics that are UL listed require a power limited (class2/3) power supply.

I’m not using this exact model but it’s the first one I found-

https://www.nortekcontrol.com/pdf/manuals/2000_e-eM_Install.pdf

Page two- A UL Listed access control power limited power supply, capable of 4 hours standby, must be used to power the keypad

 

[hbiss]

Ahh that doesn't say CL2 does it. All that means is that the power supply must be fused for a safe limit. It's common to see these things connected to a 10A mag lock supply with 22 ga wire.

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

Ahh that doesn't say CL2 does it. All that means is that the power supply must be fused for a safe limit. It's common to see these things connected to a 10A mag lock supply with 22 ga wire.

-Hal

A fuse is doesn’t create an inherently power limited system by UL standards (in this case UL294), does it?