l.e.d lighting
- Thread starter mh183
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winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I have never used LEDs for general lighting, but I follow the field for hobby reasons: I use LEDs for bicycle lighting and build my own bicycle lights.
I would sit down and ask your customer why they want LED lights.
If they simply want bulk white light and think that LEDs will save them money, then steer them toward compact fluorescent lamps. The LEDs coming out of the lab are only just now matching the efficiency of CF lamps, and the LEDs in mass distribution are rather less efficient that CF lamps, while being much more expensive.
On the other hand, LEDs offer substantial control, more than just about any other light source. If you are willing to pay the $$, you can get LED systems that offer a full range of colors, at pretty high power levels.
LEDs are also hands down the best light source for low power use, eg. night lights or certain forms of accent lighting.
Finally, don't trust any of the manufacturers when they make claims about the light output of their LED bulbs. The LED die manufacturers are reasonably honest, reporting lumen output, but the bulb manufacturers make claims that are simply outlandish. Get a sample and see how much light it produces before you trust their numbers.
-Jon
I would sit down and ask your customer why they want LED lights.
If they simply want bulk white light and think that LEDs will save them money, then steer them toward compact fluorescent lamps. The LEDs coming out of the lab are only just now matching the efficiency of CF lamps, and the LEDs in mass distribution are rather less efficient that CF lamps, while being much more expensive.
On the other hand, LEDs offer substantial control, more than just about any other light source. If you are willing to pay the $$, you can get LED systems that offer a full range of colors, at pretty high power levels.
LEDs are also hands down the best light source for low power use, eg. night lights or certain forms of accent lighting.
Finally, don't trust any of the manufacturers when they make claims about the light output of their LED bulbs. The LED die manufacturers are reasonably honest, reporting lumen output, but the bulb manufacturers make claims that are simply outlandish. Get a sample and see how much light it produces before you trust their numbers.
-Jon
I have done research on LED use for practical use in the residential market. I purchase products to see if the actual hype works in reality compared to other lamping types such as CFL's. There are claims made by chip manufacturers that have tested their advanced developments up to 160 lumen outputs per watt! The reality is how the encapsulted chip is able to illuminate a surface using the point method for minimum Fc for workplane requirements.
The LED lamping on the market that I personally use to read with under a 5' floor lamp puts out 60 lumens per watt. There are 36 LED's in the Plastic diffuser bulb that is similar to a type A standard medium base incandescent lamp. The CBCP(center beam candle power) directional output is not adequate enough to be used as a recessed illumination source at this time. That lamp cost $44 USD at a discount outlet online. There are other LED lamps available that throw out about 180 lumens total but are directional with a high 6500 kelvin temperature scale gray-blue light that is not conducive to pyschologically warm residential environs. It would be more to the liking of a science lab or morgue glow.
Newer LED's are being developed at a great pace for a lower 3000k range to match incandescent warm effect mood lighting but are still experimental.
I have also tested an undercounter 14 LED lamp strip that is 120 VAC fixture cord connected that is again only enough light to keep the counter shadows down from a low Fc output at a 16" workplane distance.
The newer CFL lamping is the best answer today to lamp a house out for energy savings as does the CA Title 24 requirements in California. The task to comply with Title 24 is that the luminaires must have keyed pins or terminals that a standard medium base incandescent can't be screwed into socket-wise. So if your client is elsewhere that wouldn't matter.
I am almost done with my latest book that illustrates the latest in lighting and references to CA 24 requirements. I also list 'EL wire' phosphor lighting as another type of illumination that has not come of age but is being used more and more for signage and recreational 'Burning Man' festival displays each year. The el wire could be used as undercounter lamping but the phosphor has a short maintenance life around 1000 hrs. versus an LED's of around 60,000 hours. CFL is the best pop for the buck right now. JMO
The LED lamping on the market that I personally use to read with under a 5' floor lamp puts out 60 lumens per watt. There are 36 LED's in the Plastic diffuser bulb that is similar to a type A standard medium base incandescent lamp. The CBCP(center beam candle power) directional output is not adequate enough to be used as a recessed illumination source at this time. That lamp cost $44 USD at a discount outlet online. There are other LED lamps available that throw out about 180 lumens total but are directional with a high 6500 kelvin temperature scale gray-blue light that is not conducive to pyschologically warm residential environs. It would be more to the liking of a science lab or morgue glow.
Newer LED's are being developed at a great pace for a lower 3000k range to match incandescent warm effect mood lighting but are still experimental.
I have also tested an undercounter 14 LED lamp strip that is 120 VAC fixture cord connected that is again only enough light to keep the counter shadows down from a low Fc output at a 16" workplane distance.
The newer CFL lamping is the best answer today to lamp a house out for energy savings as does the CA Title 24 requirements in California. The task to comply with Title 24 is that the luminaires must have keyed pins or terminals that a standard medium base incandescent can't be screwed into socket-wise. So if your client is elsewhere that wouldn't matter.
I am almost done with my latest book that illustrates the latest in lighting and references to CA 24 requirements. I also list 'EL wire' phosphor lighting as another type of illumination that has not come of age but is being used more and more for signage and recreational 'Burning Man' festival displays each year. The el wire could be used as undercounter lamping but the phosphor has a short maintenance life around 1000 hrs. versus an LED's of around 60,000 hours. CFL is the best pop for the buck right now. JMO
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LED details
LED details
The LED lighting is good for about 30" distance to the workplane or shelf display being illuminated. The white/blue hue does give good object reflectance highlighting in a studio or gallery dim lit atmosphere but will not help for reading labels at a distance. I use one 36 LED lamp for overhead lighting 3 ft above a computer workspace. The eyes adapt well for visual accuity in the dark without any effects of eyestrain.
CFL and other fluorescent lighting are a devil for eye strain and head aches I noticed. I didn't mind the cost of this lamp for that reason. The price is starting to come down at supply houses. ($24 for same unit now) The color temperature range pricing goes up as the hue gets warmer towards incandescent 3000k level. Most white LED's are in the 6500k range.
LED details
mh183 said:
The LED lighting is good for about 30" distance to the workplane or shelf display being illuminated. The white/blue hue does give good object reflectance highlighting in a studio or gallery dim lit atmosphere but will not help for reading labels at a distance. I use one 36 LED lamp for overhead lighting 3 ft above a computer workspace. The eyes adapt well for visual accuity in the dark without any effects of eyestrain.
CFL and other fluorescent lighting are a devil for eye strain and head aches I noticed. I didn't mind the cost of this lamp for that reason. The price is starting to come down at supply houses. ($24 for same unit now) The color temperature range pricing goes up as the hue gets warmer towards incandescent 3000k level. Most white LED's are in the 6500k range.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
The LED market is just not there for general lighting. The source is OK where you don't need a lot of light, such as flashlights. The real challange is to get the lumens up and remove the heat from the chip.
CFs are the best solution. I replaced 150 Watt incandescents with 15 watt CF in my basement. My only complaint about CFs is some are slow to come up to full output.
I am working on a security lighting application using induction lighting, Its a long life- 100,000 hours, HID color (CRI 82) instant on source. The gas is excited by an radio frequency. since its instant on its great for security. Crouse Hinds has had a induction haz location luminare out for several years.
CFs are the best solution. I replaced 150 Watt incandescents with 15 watt CF in my basement. My only complaint about CFs is some are slow to come up to full output.
I am working on a security lighting application using induction lighting, Its a long life- 100,000 hours, HID color (CRI 82) instant on source. The gas is excited by an radio frequency. since its instant on its great for security. Crouse Hinds has had a induction haz location luminare out for several years.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
This is very true, even with most fluorescents, but especially with compact-fluorescents.tom baker said:
One thing that helps is to keep the lighting on for a full 24 hours the first time the lights are turned on.
LarryFine said:
I agree with this especially when the CFL's are not rated for low temperature as in walk-in freezers or outdoor climates that dip below 30deg F. A CFL that is on 24/7 will stay operable. If it is turned on when it is cold, the CFL will more likely burn out if it is not rated for cold environs.
Tom,
Advances in the LED chip technology has just advanced to the fluorescent efficiency illumination level. CREE Inc. has recently (Nov 2006) released a new LED that has a 160 Lumen output intended for multi array lamping used for hi-bay and street lighting with a -20 to +140deg F ambient range. I think the residential market is somewhat in the distant future until the commercial market is exploited.
Advances in the LED chip technology has just advanced to the fluorescent efficiency illumination level. CREE Inc. has recently (Nov 2006) released a new LED that has a 160 Lumen output intended for multi array lamping used for hi-bay and street lighting with a -20 to +140deg F ambient range. I think the residential market is somewhat in the distant future until the commercial market is exploited.
Natfuelbilll
Senior Member
I am thinking of using led lighting powered from a very small wind turbine, real simple, no ac, no battery.
Lighting would be for lighting a path to a dock, and around the water. landscape accent kind of stuff.
Got any ideas?
Lighting would be for lighting a path to a dock, and around the water. landscape accent kind of stuff.
Got any ideas?
Bob NH
Senior Member
- Location
- The "Live Free or Die" State
My recollection is that when the sun goes down on a warm summer evening, the water often becomes like glass. No wind.Natfuelbilll said:
The "solar lights" that use a solar cell to charge a battery every day seem to work.
Maybe you could add a battery and a photocell to your wind turbine.
natfuelbill
Senior Member
You are right, I guess I would need a diode, a battery, and to save the battery till when it gets dark does make a lot of sense.
I need to start tinkering....
I need to start tinkering....
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