Capturing Broadcast TV Signals

[TwinCitySparky]

Or a TV set with an ATSC tuner.

Umm, good point.

Shows how fat my wallet is.

 

[steelersman]

I have a rabbit ears guy that is looking for an antenna for reception of digital signals come February. Any recommendations?

Thank you.

I don't understand all of this hype about the big switch? Won't this only affect people that don't subscribe to any cable or satellite? I would imagine that most people in this day and age have some sort of cable or satellite that they subscribe to and they won't be affected.

Also congrats to your Dolphins Chris. I hope they beat Baltimore.

 

[hillbilly1]

The nearest cable gets to my house is 10 miles away! I've had the big analog satelite dishs before they scrambled everything, Seen the space shuttle blow up live on the Nasa video feed. Got one of the first DirecTV dishes when satelite went digital, now I have an antenna that looks like one of those Imperial battle cruisers from Star Wars. It's been the cheapest I have done so far. As far as the channel frequencies go, I've heard that some stations will return to vhf after the switch. It is much cheaper for the stations to do this, as it does not take as much wattage to transmit the the same distance on the lower frequencies.

 

[hbiss]

Won't this only affect people that don't subscribe to any cable or satellite?

That is correct.

I would imagine that most people in this day and age have some sort of cable or satellite that they subscribe to.

We would think so but that is not always true. Old people are one group that refuses to have cable or satellite. Then there are those who may have one sat receiver or cable box with other, less important sets still connected to an antenna. So they are out there.

-Hal

 

[brantmacga]

The problem is not the number of stations, or antennas, or converters, but the broadcast power. They don't seem have any power.

I e-mailed my local PBS station about this because I can't pick up their digital transmission. They replied that after the switch they will increase power. They currently are broadcasting at limited power to keep from interfering with another station in the area; because of the switch, some stations are having to change their channels (their virtual channel numbers remain the same) and for those already broadcasting in digital, this can be a problem right now.

And satellite providers aren't even allowed to provide stations that are available now, in analog over the air, since they are out of your "viewing area"

That's because the stations lobbied for a law to prevent you from watching advertising and news from out-of-area to protect themselves. The only way you can get out-of-area programming is if the sat provider doesn't have a retransmit agreement with the stations in your DMA, and you cannot receive their signal w/ an antenna. The local station has to sign a waiver 'releasing' you to receive programming from another DMA; and right now I think your only options are LA and ATL stations if you fall in that category.

I live in what I like to call a "sweet spot"; within the overlap of two DMA's. Its nice for sports because one DMA carries the falcons and braves, and the other carries the jaguars, bucs, and devil rays. Plus with the various sub-channels, I get a lot of varied programming.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

We would think so but that is not always true. Old people are one group that refuses to have cable or satellite. Then there are those who may have one sat receiver or cable box with other, less important sets still connected to an antenna. So they are out there.

-Hal

I'm sure I'm in the odd minority. When our first son arrived ten years ago we ditched the cable. The kids dont miss it a bit. :grin:

 

[grich]

...As far as the channel frequencies go, I've heard that some stations will return to vhf after the switch. It is much cheaper for the stations to do this, as it does not take as much wattage to transmit the the same distance on the lower frequencies.

The Des Moines stations that are analog VHF will go back to their VHF channels for digital after the switch. We're glad to...no more water-cooled tubes, no more 30kv beam power supplies, and we'll be saving thousands of $$ each month on our power bill.

 

[chris kennedy]

I don't understand all of this hype about the big switch? Won't this only affect people that don't subscribe to any cable or satellite? I would imagine that most people in this day and age have some sort of cable or satellite that they subscribe to and they won't be affected.

The guy in question is my brother. He is pretty exclusive to PBS and does not watch the box habitually. A couple of the locally transmitted PBS stations are not available here on cable or sat.

He has done his homework as far as bands and distance and I am pretty sure he will be happy with an indoor by either Winegard or Channelmaster.

Again, thanks all for the replies, I'll let you know what he gets and how well it works here.

Also congrats to your Dolphins Chris. I hope they beat Baltimore.

Thanks Garth. If we lose it was still a special season!

Old people are one group that refuses to have cable or satellite.

Hey now!

 

[hbiss]

The Des Moines stations that are analog VHF will go back to their VHF channels for digital after the switch.

Grich, egnlsn, if you dig down in rabbitears.org it looks like when they do they will be greatly reducing their power.

Isn't that in keeping with only allowing low power stations to remain in the VHF band?

-Hal

 

[kbsparky]

Don't wait too long to get your $40 coupons ...

Don't wait too long to get your $40 coupons ...

For those who have procrastinated in getting their Gov't coupons, here is some bad news:

"... U.S. consumers who wait too long to request government coupons to subsidize converter boxes for the digital television transition in February may come up empty-handed, a regulator has warned...."

Full story here.

 

[stickboy1375]

I don't understand all of this hype about the big switch? Won't this only affect people that don't subscribe to any cable or satellite? I would imagine that most people in this day and age have some sort of cable or satellite that they subscribe to and they won't be affected.

Yes. but... not everyone installs a cable box at every tv location, but they soon will. And of course be charged accordingly. Not going to be fun for people with 10 TV's and 1 set top box for the one HD tv in the house.

 

[egnlsn]

Grich, egnlsn, if you dig down in rabbitears.org it looks like when they do they will be greatly reducing their power.
-Hal

My first response would be that because of signal propagation, less power is required to transmit a VHF signal the same distance than a UHF signal.

Obviously a bit old, but this article also addresses that subject.

 

[egnlsn]

Yes. but... not everyone installs a cable box at every tv location, but they soon will. And of course be charged accordingly. Not going to be fun for people with 10 TV's and 1 set top box for the one HD tv in the house.

The DTV transition of 2/17/2009 affects OTA only. Analog will be around on cable for some time to come. Eventually, most analog will disappear from cable (they will probably keep a dozen or two analog channels), but that will be to free up bandwidth for more HD services, High Speed Internet, etc. It has nothing to do with 2/17/2009.

 

[hbiss]

My first response would be that because of signal propagation, less power is required to transmit a VHF signal the same distance than a UHF signal.

Looks like they are lowering the power from their old NTSC analog days when they move their digital signal to the old VHF transmitter.

Drill down: name>station>technical data & Screencaps>FCC query

-Hal

 

[egnlsn]

My first response would be that because of signal propagation, less power is required to transmit a VHF signal the same distance than a UHF signal.

Looks like they are lowering the power from their old NTSC analog days when they move their digital signal to the old VHF transmitter.

Drill down: name>station>technical data & Screencaps>FCC query

-Hal

If you then scroll down (within FCC Query) to the top digital listing and click "Application Info," you will see that the expiration date of that particular license is 2/17/2009 (at least for the ones I looked at). I would expect that beginning 2/17 and for the next little while, stations will be playing around with their power to optimize their coverage.

I'll see what I can find out.

 

[egnlsn]

The Des Moines stations that are analog VHF will go back to their VHF channels for digital after the switch.

Grich, egnlsn, if you dig down in rabbitears.org it looks like when they do they will be greatly reducing their power.

Isn't that in keeping with only allowing low power stations to remain in the VHF band?

-Hal

From an engineer at a Fox station: "Analog power is based on peak power, digital power is based on average power as well as signal to noise ratio differences of it takes to decode the analog and digital signals. You are comparing apples to oranges. It more than just power levels."

Compare the coverage areas:

Channel 7 Analog

Channel 7 Digital

 

[stickboy1375]

The DTV transition of 2/17/2009 affects OTA only. Analog will be around on cable for some time to come. Eventually, most analog will disappear from cable (they will probably keep a dozen or two analog channels), but that will be to free up bandwidth for more HD services, High Speed Internet, etc. It has nothing to do with 2/17/2009.

All cable companies are claiming all digital channels. so what gives? I'm just going to wait and see for myself.

 

[hillbilly1]

DirecTV has always been digital, they just convert back to analog for the TV sets to work. That's why your picture pixelates during bad weather, not enough signal if it's not tracked in good. Digital cable does the same thing when it works, they also convert it back to analog. At least satellite's picture comes back after the storm.

 

[tkb]

For those who have procrastinated in getting their Gov't coupons, here is some bad news:

"... U.S. consumers who wait too long to request government coupons to subsidize converter boxes for the digital television transition in February may come up empty-handed, a regulator has warned...."

Full story here.

Sounds like it may already be too late.
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/01/tv_transition_p.html

 

[hbiss]

All cable companies are claiming all digital channels.

Well, now we are mixing two cans of worms together. There are two separate and unrelated things that some people get confused:

1) The Digital Transition of the broadcast or over-the-air TV that you receive with an antenna. This is what we have been discussing in this thread. Nothing to do with cable or satellite.

2) The elimination of analog by the cable companies. Even though over-the-air broadcasts are digital the cable companies will convert them to analog, so if you have cable nothing will change.

For now.

The cable companies want to eliminate those analog channels because they are bandwidth hogs and they are running out of room. They can put up to ten digital channels or three or four HD channels in the same space as one analog channel so the switch to digital is a no brainer. Kinda like compressing your computer HD when it runs out of room.

When this happens every TV on cable will either have to have a digital tuner (which all do that have been manufactured in recent years) or a cable box for the TV just to work. A cable box will be required in most cases to get the premium programming, pay-per-view, etc. just like now.

Some cable companies have timed their own change to digital to coincide with the Digital Transition. There are lots of theories as to why, some good, some nefarious.

-Hal