Multiple Fire/Smoke system in a house

[w_d_anderson]

Is there any rule against having both a low voltage Smoke/CO/security system and a line voltage Smoke system in a single family home? A local inspector says that he believes there is but he isn't sure. He wants the line voltage system deactivated.
Thanks

 

[RICK NAPIER]

There isn't any code against it in either NFPA or ICC codes. But removing the line voltge system would a violation of the 2003 and 2006 IRC but not necessary the 2009 IRC.

 

[iwire]

Most likely local codes require the line voltage smoke alarms, the homeowners can choose to add smoke detectors if they want.

 

[electricmanscott]

I can't imagine why you would be required to have line voltage over low voltage.

I also see no problem with haveing both. What kind of inspector would say you have too many smoke detectors.

 

[cpal]

Are the system detectors ionization or photo??

 

[w_d_anderson]

too old

too old

I didn't check the type because both systems are so old that which ever type of detector that gets left operational needs to be replaced. The coverage of both systems is also not up to current code given the new bedrm addition so new gear is need for that as well. The HO choose to update the Low voltage system and the AHJ seems to be going along with just the one system.
I was primarily concerned that if a monitored low voltage system went off of monitoring contract that the home owner might end up without a working Smoke/Heat/CO system.

 

[nhfire77]

I have one town that allows lv only as long as there are battery calcs for 60 hours.

I have only done it once.

People are soooooo conditioned with line voltage smokes that lv only can be dangerous b/c they can be disconnected from their primary power and they don't beep when the battery is low. The alarm system does, but the correlation between the two is not made.

 

[MAK]

My company installed a burglar alarm @ a residence in Hingham and the local fire marshal would not sign off because there were line voltage smokes (installed to code) and wireless smokes that reported thru the burglar alarm system (not installed to code) in the building.

He said that we would have to choose one or the other and if they were going to be the wireless smokes we would have to add more because they were installed as supplementary to the line voltage smokes. I believe his reasoning was that when both types of smokes go into alarm that the sounds will be different and not synced causing the HO to become confused. We removed the wireless smokes instead of adding so many more.

I remember in a code class that I was taking a while ago the teacher was teaching this same thing. That you could not install to separate systems because of the difference in the smoke's alarm tone.

 

[nhfire77]

My company installed a burglar alarm @ a residence in Hingham and the local fire marshal would not sign off because there were line voltage smokes (installed to code) and wireless smokes that reported thru the burglar alarm system (not installed to code) in the building.

He said that we would have to choose one or the other and if they were going to be the wireless smokes we would have to add more because they were installed as supplementary to the line voltage smokes. I believe his reasoning was that when both types of smokes go into alarm that the sounds will be different and not synced causing the HO to become confused. We removed the wireless smokes instead of adding so many more.

I remember in a code class that I was taking a while ago the teacher was teaching this same thing. That you could not install to separate systems because of the difference in the smoke's alarm tone.

That's Crap.

There is no code reference (besides a local amendment) that could force that.

I find that to a a ridiculous argument, but the FD gets what they want in MA, god knows that.

If, they are all smoke detectors, there is nothing to confuse. If it was a CO, they sound a difference cadence anyway, and even IF they didn't; if there is a circular object on your ceiling beeping, you will call the FD, whether its a smoke, CO or something completely unrelated to life safety

 

[Security101]

Not only that but unless you're using system smokes (secondary) with integral sounders the only sound you'll get is from your notification device(s) which wont sound anything like a line voltage smoke.

Adding secondary system smokes are nothing but a benefit for the client - and I will always recommend it!


On another note: Michigan for example wont allow just system smokes (residentially) for a interesting reason - dealers shut down (lock out or disable) systems (burglary, hybrid, fire etc) and some have left their ex customers with no fire protection, apparently a big issue there...

I personally charge for my service and equipment whilst installing, so the customer doesn't owe me for equipment. I feel it's criminal to shut down a "paid for" fire system because the client hasn't paid their monitoring contract or has breeched contract. Not only criminal but down right wrong and insanely ridiculous from a liability standpoint - I don't care how good your contract is...

Jim

 

[MAK]

Not only that but unless you're using system smokes (secondary) with integral sounders the only sound you'll get is from your notification device(s) which wont sound anything like a line voltage smoke.
Jim

If it is a smoke detector that has an integral sounder does it not have to comply with (NFPA 72 2007)11.5.2.1.1 Smoke and Heat alarms?
That seems to state that smoke alarms are to be interconnected and sound when initiated.
I don't really see what the big deal is with having different smokes in the same residence anyway. They will all do their job. Can't really find a code section that states that it is not permissible.

 

[nhfire77]

If it is a smoke detector that has an integral sounder does it not have to comply with (NFPA 72 2007)11.5.2.1.1 Smoke and Heat alarms?
That seems to state that smoke alarms are to be interconnected and sound when initiated.

does it say seperate devices from a seperate system have to be interconnected between the two systems?

No.

Can't really find a code section that states that it is not permissible.

You can't because there isn't one.

 

[bgeorge]

Here in NJ, in a dwelling unit we have to put line voltage smokes in for new construction. Low voltage smokes on an alarm system are only allowed if you exceed 12 detectors AND they must be on a monitored sytem(for reasons previously mentioned...of course.)