Path of GEC when bonding gas pipe

[sfav8r]

When convenient, we will usually run the gas pipe bond to a ground rod close to where the gas pipes enter the building. I was taught that the gas pipe should never be BETWEEN the rod and the panel. Looking at a one-line diagram it would be the gas pipe, then the rod, then the panel. I was looking for something in the NEC that requires this but cannot locate it. Does anyone have an NEC reference or maybe one of the Mike Holt diagrams? I thought it was in the bonding vs grounding book but I didn't see it there either.

Thanks

 

[augie47]

If I'm thinking clearly, the gas pipe is not (and should not be) a grounding electrode. The Code requires it be bonded, but since it is not an electrode the Code does not allow you to connect a second electrode to the pipe (using the pipe as a conductor)

 

[sfav8r]

If I'm thinking clearly, the gas pipe is not (and should not be) a grounding electrode. The Code requires it be bonded, but since it is not an electrode the Code does not allow you to connect a second electrode to the pipe (using the pipe as a conductor)

Yes, it (the gas pipe) absolutely should NOT be a grounding electrode. I am talking about BONDING the pipe, not using it as an electrode.

 

[augie47]

I understand that (I think).
The Code allows you to connect your grounding electrode conductors, if properly sized, to the service or to another grounding electrode.
When you route your grounding electrode conductor from your ground rod it should connect to the grounded conductor at or ahead of your service disconnect OR to another grounding electrode.
The bonded gas pipe is NOT a grounding electrode (250.52) so it can not be a connection point for a grounding electrode conductor

 

[sfav8r]

I understand that (I think).
The Code allows you to connect your grounding electrode conductors, if properly sized, to the service or to another grounding electrode.
When you route your grounding electrode conductor from your ground rod it should connect to the grounded conductor at or ahead of your service disconnect OR to another grounding electrode.
The bonded gas pipe is NOT a grounding electrode (250.52) so it can not be a connection point for a grounding electrode conductor

It's funny how something so simple can be so hard to put into words. If I can figure out how to upload a drawing I will. We already have a #2 GEC that runs from a ground rod, to the water pipe, then directly to the panel. Even though we don't need #2 from the portion from the ground rod to the water pipe, it's only 1' away so we just extended the #2. We then have the supplemental ground rod which we are also using to bond the gas pipe. That conductor runs as indicated in my oroginal post...gas pipe, then to ground rod, then to panel. (as opposed to ground rod then gas pipe then panel).

 

[Gregg Harris]

It's funny how something so simple can be so hard to put into words. If I can figure out how to upload a drawing I will. We already have a #2 GEC that runs from a ground rod, to the water pipe, then directly to the panel. Even though we don't need #2 from the portion from the ground rod to the water pipe, it's only 1' away so we just extended the #2. We then have the supplemental ground rod which we are also using to bond the gas pipe. That conductor runs as indicated in my oroginal post...gas pipe, then to ground rod, then to panel. (as opposed to ground rod then gas pipe then panel).

the gas pipe needs to be bonded on the load side of the meter.

Example, undergroud gas main (line side) gas riser, dielectric gass cock"used to isolate gas main" and to turn service off, the meter, (load side of meter) bonding anywhere on this side of meter.

 

[sfav8r]

the gas pipe needs to be bonded on the load side of the meter.

Example, undergroud gas main (line side) gas riser, dielectric gass cock"used to isolate gas main" and to turn service off, the meter, (load side of meter) bonding anywhere on this side of meter.

It is, I don't see your point? My question has to do with the order of the conductor. Rod, pipe, panel versus pipe, rod, panel. It may seem insignificant, but the 2nd scenario puts the gas pipe BETWEEN the rod and the panel which we were taught not to do. That was the original question.

Thanks.

 

[GoldDigger]

It is, I don't see your point? My question has to do with the order of the conductor. Rod, pipe, panel versus pipe, rod, panel. It may seem insignificant, but the 2nd scenario puts the gas pipe BETWEEN the rod and the panel which we were taught not to do. That was the original question.

Thanks.

If the wire from the panel to the rod is not spliced or is irreversibly spliced then the fact that it is also connected to the gas pipe along the way may not be an issue.

But you cannot use a reversible connection of either wire to the gas pipe as part of the path from panel to rod.

 

[jap]

I may be looking at this all wrong, but, What is the need for the 2nd ground rod by the Gas Pipe anyway?

If a supplemental ground rod is not needed to begin with then the Gas pipe is bonded by the wire that is taken from the gas pipe to the Ground bar in the main panel regardless of wether the 2nd rod is there or not.

 

[sfav8r]

I may be looking at this all wrong, but, What is the need for the 2nd ground rod by the Gas Pipe anyway?

If a supplemental ground rod is not needed to begin with then the Gas pipe is bonded by the wire that is taken from the gas pipe to the Ground bar in the main panel regardless of wether the 2nd rod is there or not.

Local AHJ requires 2nd rod or a certified ground resistance test of 25 ohms or less on the first rod. since the tests run about $250 everyone just puts in 2 rods.

 

[jap]

When we drive a 2nd rod to meet this rule it is generally an extension from the 1st driven rod and we use an unspliced GEC from the first rod to the 2nd, then take care of the bonding by going from the Ground Bar in the Panel to the Gas Pipe on its own if required.

 

[augie47]

I see no problem with the sketch as drawn.
IF the ground rod and gas pipe were in reverse order, there would be a potential problem depending on how you made your connections.
If the GEC stopped at the pipe (on a clamp) and was then extended by using another clamp, it would be a violation since the gas pipe in not an electrode.
There are other ways to connect at the pipe that would allow you to hit it first.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't believe the csst piping needs to be bonded using a continuous run. As long as it is connected to the grounding electrode system and it lands outside at the point of entry then IMO, you have complied.

 

[augie47]

I don't believe the csst piping needs to be bonded using a continuous run. As long as it is connected to the grounding electrode system and it lands outside at the point of entry then IMO, you have complied.

I didn't see CSST mentioned and I was avoiding that as I was confused enough

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I didn't see CSST mentioned and I was avoiding that as I was confused enough

I figured why run a #6 to a gas pipe if there was no csst. An educated guess.

 

[augie47]

I figured why run a #6 to a gas pipe if there was no csst. An educated guess.

OH. That left me out as I only make wild-*** guesses

(I agree with you on the CSST..just did not approach it)

 

[GoldDigger]

I see no problem with the sketch as drawn.
IF the ground rod and gas pipe were in reverse order, there would be a potential problem

The OP's original question was in fact the exact opposite of what he drew in the sketch.

 

[augie47]

I thought that at first and I was answering along those lines, but, in hindsight, I think he simply started at the pipe and worked toward the panel whereas I normally think from the panel out.

 

[GoldDigger]

I thought that at first and I was answering along those lines, but, in hindsight, I think he simply started at the pipe and worked toward the panel whereas I normally think from the panel out.

Post #5:

That conductor runs as indicated in my oroginal post...gas pipe, then to ground rod, then to panel. (as opposed to ground rod then gas pipe then panel).

Yup. Very confusing to me too.
It is his water pipe connection that is reversed from that, so maybe we should be talking about that.

 

[sfav8r]

I see no problem with the sketch as drawn.
IF the ground rod and gas pipe were in reverse order, there would be a potential problem depending on how you made your connections.
If the GEC stopped at the pipe (on a clamp) and was then extended by using another clamp, it would be a violation since the gas pipe in not an electrode.
There are other ways to connect at the pipe that would allow you to hit it first.

thanks Augie, that's exactly what I was asking. When you say "There are other ways to connect at the pipe that would allow you to hit it first." could you elaborate?

Thanks