External ground lug on a generator

[goldstar]

Just curious to know if anyone else is running into this with EI's. It is my understanding and the position of the NJ DCA Code Assistance unit that a residential NG, standby generator does not have to have the ground lug attached to a ground rod unless the xfer switch is wired as a separately derived system. There is already a ground wire inside the whip that connects the generator to the xfer switch and properly grounds the unit.

The reason I'm asking this is because I recently had an EI tell me that it is Generac's recommendation that we attach the lug to a ground rod. I disagreed and wrote him a letter explaining that the Generac installation manual states that "a ground strap must be connected in accordance with local codes". So, I told him that unless there was a municipal ordinance or code that states I have to provide this he could not enforce this requirement. In an attempt to appease him and move on with the project I went back, could not find the existing ground rod (must have been buried in the soil) so I attached a # 6 ground wire to the 2" gal. pipe coming out the bottom of the meter enclosure and bonded it to the generator. He told me that I could not do that unless the conduit ran all the way underground to the pole or xfmr. :? Long story - short I installed the %@#*ing ground rod, sent him a photo and again explained that he was 100% wrong. Can't wait to do another job in this town.:rant:

 

[augie47]

All the Generac installs I have inspected have had a ground rod so it's not been an issue. Those installers I asked advised it was "required" by Generac
I spent 20 minutes (which seemed like 3 hours) on the phone several yeras ago with Generac with them convincing me that the rod was necessary (for their benefit). I called them simply to see "why" as it was not Code required other than due to their requirement.
I'm not challenging what you say as I've never read their requirement and it certainly may have changed since I talked with them.

 

[goldstar]

Here's the exact wording from page 4 of the installation guidelines booklet (which, by the way, is no longer available in printed form. Everything comes on a CD)

Connect an approved ground strap to the grounding lug on the base frame and to an approved earth ground or ground rod as specified by local regulations

How can anyone possibly interpret that as having to ground the frame of the generator to a ground rod as per manufacturer's requirements ? There are no local regulations. The unit is grounded via the appropriately sized ground wire in the whip that connects it to the xfer switch.

 

[david]

Here's the exact wording from page 4 of the installation guidelines booklet (which, by the way, is no longer available in printed form. Everything comes on a CD)

Connect an approved ground strap to the grounding lug on the base frame and to an approved earth ground or ground rod as specified by local regulations

How can anyone possibly interpret that as having to ground the frame of the generator to a ground rod as per manufacturer's requirements ? There are no local regulations. The unit is grounded via the appropriately sized ground wire in the whip that connects it to the xfer switch.

I see it as saying these elements are to be connected together.
Strap approved by some authority and earth ground that would be approved by a local authority as ground or to a ground rod if there is no authority to approve the earth ground

 

[david]

An example here and a lot of other areas the utility regulates two ground rods at each service. One ground rod by utility regulations would not be an approved electrode.
I may be wrong but I think the regulations are about the electrode. Not that there has to be local regulations addressing the connection before it has to be made

 

[jap]

The wording is confusing because at the beginning it seems to be instructing you to do so, and not giving you an option to do otherwise.

If I were to write it, it would probably read as follows.

If required by local regulations,Connect an approved ground strap to the grounding lug on the base frame to an approved earth ground or ground rod.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Just curious to know if anyone else is running into this with EI's. It is my understanding and the position of the NJ DCA Code Assistance unit that a residential NG, standby generator does not have to have the ground lug attached to a ground rod unless the xfer switch is wired as a separately derived system. There is already a ground wire inside the whip that connects the generator to the xfer switch and properly grounds the unit.

The reason I'm asking this is because I recently had an EI tell me that it is Generac's recommendation that we attach the lug to a ground rod. I disagreed and wrote him a letter explaining that the Generac installation manual states that "a ground strap must be connected in accordance with local codes". So, I told him that unless there was a municipal ordinance or code that states I have to provide this he could not enforce this requirement. In an attempt to appease him and move on with the project I went back, could not find the existing ground rod (must have been buried in the soil) so I attached a # 6 ground wire to the 2" gal. pipe coming out the bottom of the meter enclosure and bonded it to the generator. He told me that I could not do that unless the conduit ran all the way underground to the pole or xfmr. :? Long story - short I installed the %@#*ing ground rod, sent him a photo and again explained that he was 100% wrong. Can't wait to do another job in this town.:rant:

If you look at there documents they are directed at the consumer of the product to read. Depending on which document you have the first reference to grounding tells you to ground according to NEC 250 and to local requirement, the second notation tells the consumer to "connect an approved ground strap to the grounding lug on the base of the frame and to an approved earth ground or grounding rod as specified by local regulations".

Now the consumer can contact the local regulatory agency rather than to try and contact someone associated with the NEC. It also states to have the installation inspected by a local electrical contractor for correctness.

 

[GoldDigger]

An example here and a lot of other areas the utility regulates two ground rods at each service. One ground rod by utility regulations would not be an approved electrode.
I may be wrong but I think the regulations are about the electrode. Not that there has to be local regulations addressing the connection before it has to be made

Thumbs up! For the other interpretation, it would have to read "...IF required by local regulations..." What it says to me too is that you must do it, but do it in a way that also complies with local regulations, if any. :thumbsup:

 

[goldstar]

Sorry Guys. I don't agree with your "other" interpretations. Besides which, the NJ DCA Code Assistance unit agrees with me. They're the only ones that help keep the sanity by interceding between EC's and EI's. There are no local codes or ordinances directing me to additionally bond this generator. In addition, this is being taught in many of our CEU's. Unless you have a separately derived system you don't need to connect that lug to a ground rod. The generator is already grounded via the whip.

In the vast majority of areas I work in only one ground rod is required as a suppliment to a water main ground. However, you have to prove to the EI that it's 25 ohms or less to ground. Rather than go through all that we generally just drive another rod and be done with it. FWIW, if there is an exposed rod that's within say 5' or so of the generator I'll just make the connection so I don't have to put up with the EI's lack of knowledge and end up in an argument with him. BTW, this same inspector has failed me for mounting a main breaker panel upside down and landing 2 wires on a clamp-down type circuit breaker. I'm just tired of the confrontations and his lack of education.

 

[infinity]

Sorry Guys. I don't agree with your "other" interpretations. Besides which, the NJ DCA Code Assistance unit agrees with me. They're the only ones that help keep the sanity by interceding between EC's and EI's. There are no local codes or ordinances directing me to additionally bond this generator. In addition, this is being taught in many of our CEU's. Unless you have a separately derived system you don't need to connect that lug to a ground rod. The generator is already grounded via the whip.

In the vast majority of areas I work in only one ground rod is required as a suppliment to a water main ground. However, you have to prove to the EI that it's 25 ohms or less to ground. Rather than go through all that we generally just drive another rod and be done with it. FWIW, if there is an exposed rod that's within say 5' or so of the generator I'll just make the connection so I don't have to put up with the EI's lack of knowledge and end up in an argument with him. BTW, this same inspector has failed me for mounting a main breaker panel upside down and landing 2 wires on a clamp-down type circuit breaker. I'm just tired of the confrontations and his lack of education.

Unfortunately like bad electricians there are also bad inspectors. Did anyone at the DCA offer to straighten him out?

The part that you mentioned about one ground rod is right out of the NEC, this is not an interpretive statement by the inspector. It's two ground rods or the exception, one rod with a proven resistance of 25 ohms or less.

 

[goldstar]

Unfortunately like bad electricians there are also bad inspectors. Did anyone at the DCA offer to straighten him out?

All they say is that if I continue to have a problem have the EI call them and they'll straighten him out. That usually never happens and you end up having to put up with the crap over and over again.

The part that you mentioned about one ground rod is right out of the NEC, this is not an interpretive statement by the inspector. It's two ground rods or the exception, one rod with a proven resistance of 25 ohms or less.

That is correct.

 

[jap]

Goldstar,

You were right to begin with. Keep your head up. It's frustrating when your having to do something that you know is not right.

 

[goldstar]

Goldstar,

You were right to begin with. Keep your head up. It's frustrating when your having to do something that you know is not right.

You bet !!! I've gotten over the $18 for the rod and clamp and the 20 minutes of my time to install. It just ticks me off to have to appease this guy.